Bird shaped sword - A question to the Dah experts

Andrew · 3rd May 2006, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

Hi Andrew

No good answer really. A little bit from the blade shape and a lot of intuition, but nothing to substantiate it

No suprise that your intuition was dead-on.

I've never seen one of these before, and you come up with two! Outstanding.

Perhaps PUFF can shed some light on where this form originates.

PUFF · 3rd May 2006, 10:37 AM

Neither I 'm

From the first glance, I do not recognize these pieces as a Dha/Dahb.
Typical Dha seems to share upward hilt characteristic while these two pieces have downward one. This means the blades might be designed for a different martial art (or for tourist). IMHO: These two pieces are unlikely to be Dha/Dahb. Could it be islandic or african?

Andrew · 3rd May 2006, 01:23 PM

Hi Puff. In my experience, downward-turned hilts do appear on some dha hmyaung. Perhaps these are from Burma?

Ian · 3rd May 2006, 05:47 PM

Never seen these motifs on dha before and the overall "balance" of the pieces seems odd for dha. While the blades would fit with small dha, the streamlined carving of the birds, extending into the scabbard, seems wrong for mainland SE Asia. Apart from Buddhist symbols, deities and demons, we see little animal or bird representation on edged weapons in the region.

The interpretations on Artzi's pieces seem quite literal and look like cranes. This suggests more of a Chinese influence to me, where cranes have special significance in terms of long life and associated wisdom.

In Feng Shui a Chinese crane painting symbolizes long life that increases in wisdom. Along with the phoenix, the crane is the most important bird in Chinese legend and art.

Ian.

Picture of Chinese Cranes

fearn · 4th May 2006, 01:12 AM

Hi Ian,

I did suggest a crane motif, but just to play devil's advocate, the sword with the brass ferrule (bottom in first photo, top in second) has short legs and a long tail, suggesting that (perhaps) it's a stylized peacock or maybe hornbill. That would indicate a south Asian origin. The crane/heron is suggested mostly by the long bill, and for all we know, these are supposed to be woodpeckers or kingfishers. I know, they don't have the crests, but it's hard to tell.

Personally, with that brass ferrule, I tend to think they are from SE Asia, and I suspect that they're more for show than for fighting or work.

Fearn

athena · 4th May 2006, 03:10 AM

Well, these two don't look like Chinese.

I have a large variation of Chinese arms, but haven't seen such design. Other people, like Japanese also love crane deeply, they may be from other countries.

Justin · 4th May 2006, 11:17 PM

From the pics it looks like the birds have long tails,is that the case? I think if they do they are probably something more unusual ,I dont know of a bird off hand that really resembles the ones on the swords.

Very interesting swords,I hope we can determine where they are from,they do look somewhat dha-like but they also have a lot of features that could be from anywhere.

3rd May 2006, 05:47 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Puzzling but I think Chinese Never seen these motifs on dha before and the overall "balance" of the pieces seems odd for dha. While the blades would fit with small dha, the streamlined carving of the birds, extending into the scabbard, seems wrong for mainland SE Asia. Apart from Buddhist symbols, deities and demons, we see little animal or bird representation on edged weapons in the region. The interpretations on Artzi's pieces seem quite literal and look like cranes. This suggests more of a Chinese influence to me, where cranes have special significance in terms of long life and associated wisdom. In Feng Shui a Chinese crane painting symbolizes long life that increases in wisdom. Along with the phoenix, the crane is the most important bird in Chinese legend and art. Ian. Picture of Chinese Cranes Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 3rd May 2006 at 05:58 PM.

3rd May 2006, 10:37 AM	#2
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Neither I 'm From the first glance, I do not recognize these pieces as a Dha/Dahb. Typical Dha seems to share upward hilt characteristic while these two pieces have downward one. This means the blades might be designed for a different martial art (or for tourist). IMHO: These two pieces are unlikely to be Dha/Dahb. Could it be islandic or african?

3rd May 2006, 01:23 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi Puff. In my experience, downward-turned hilts do appear on some dha hmyaung. Perhaps these are from Burma?

4th May 2006, 01:12 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Ian, I did suggest a crane motif, but just to play devil's advocate, the sword with the brass ferrule (bottom in first photo, top in second) has short legs and a long tail, suggesting that (perhaps) it's a stylized peacock or maybe hornbill. That would indicate a south Asian origin. The crane/heron is suggested mostly by the long bill, and for all we know, these are supposed to be woodpeckers or kingfishers. I know, they don't have the crests, but it's hard to tell. Personally, with that brass ferrule, I tend to think they are from SE Asia, and I suspect that they're more for show than for fighting or work. Fearn

4th May 2006, 03:10 AM	#6
athena Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 42	Well, these two don't look like Chinese. I have a large variation of Chinese arms, but haven't seen such design. Other people, like Japanese also love crane deeply, they may be from other countries.

4th May 2006, 11:17 PM	#7
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	From the pics it looks like the birds have long tails,is that the case? I think if they do they are probably something more unusual ,I dont know of a bird off hand that really resembles the ones on the swords. Very interesting swords,I hope we can determine where they are from,they do look somewhat dha-like but they also have a lot of features that could be from anywhere.