Tulwar for comment

[Jim McDougall]

The seven star assemblage resembles the usually 6 star with comet type markings used by the Schimmelbusch makers in Solingen mid to latter 19th c. This configuration is slightly different than the one shown in Bezdek, but it has been seen on other trade blades of these times.

The 'stars' are typically termed 'cogwheels' and are seen in Italian mark groupings including the sickle marks, and are seen on earlier Swiss attributed daggers. The sickle marks, as well known, are twin opposed arcs with 'dentation' or serrated looking edges, very much like seen around this circle which has the 'cogwheels' bracketing it. This again is very much in the Italian manner of mark groupings seen in Boccia & Coelho (1985).

While the dentated arcs (sickle marks) are known to be copied on Indian and Afghan blades, usually in this blade position, I cannot recall offhand any Indian blades copying these characteristically European markings.
The circle on Stu's blade may be what is left of a 'man in the moon' face (as suggested by Kubur) and as seen occasionally enclosed in circle on some Italian blades.

While still uncertain of whether the blade is European or impressive Indian copy, I just wanted to explain my views toward the plausibility for the European attribution.

I hope someone out there can show pics of other 'Indian' blades with these 'stars' (?) also known in European context as cogwheels.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Jim,
I have placed it on the European Forum so will see what turns up there.
Stu

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The seven star assemblage resembles the usually 6 star with comet type markings used by the Schimmelbusch makers in Solingen mid to latter 19th c. This configuration is slightly different than the one shown in Bezdek, but it has been seen on other trade blades of these times.

The 'stars' are typically termed 'cogwheels' and are seen in Italian mark groupings including the sickle marks, and are seen on earlier Swiss attributed daggers. The sickle marks, as well known, are twin opposed arcs with 'dentation' or serrated looking edges, very much like seen around this circle which has the 'cogwheels' bracketing it. This again is very much in the Italian manner of mark groupings seen in Boccia & Coelho (1985).

While the dentated arcs (sickle marks) are known to be copied on Indian and Afghan blades, usually in this blade position, I cannot recall offhand any Indian blades copying these characteristically European markings.
The circle on Stu's blade may be what is left of a 'man in the moon' face (as suggested by Kubur) and as seen occasionally enclosed in circle on some Italian blades.

While still uncertain of whether the blade is European or impressive Indian copy, I just wanted to explain my views toward the plausibility for the European attribution.

I hope someone out there can show pics of other 'Indian' blades with these 'stars' (?) also known in European context as cogwheels.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Stu,
No I meant the picture from Wallace Collection - sorry, I should have been more precise.

[Richard G]

Are there traces of inlay in the marks, or is it a trick of the photography?
Regards
Richard

[ariel]

I think you might be correct re. Inlay in some cogwheels.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Oh yes, there are traces of inlay.
In the stars as well as in the round stamp.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Oh yes, there are traces of inlay.
In the stars as well as in the round stamp.

Well there you have it!!! Thank you Jens, could not see that in original images.
This IS a European blade, not only were these type markings not copied (as far as I recall) by Indian armourers, I do not recall ever seeing latten (gold metal inlay) in such markings.
Obviously Mughal blades had such inlay in cartouches and inscriptions etc. but never used on these rather pedestrian markings.

That central circle has the dentations in surround much like the ones on the sickle marks, and the cogwheels are known in combination as bracketing the dentated arcs. This may be a variation of markings as so commonly seen on Italian blades .