Tulwar for comment

mariusgmioc · 8th October 2019, 05:35 AM

Yep, honest Tulwar. Maybe 19c.

Blade needs some cleaning. I would also check it for wootz.

Kubur · 8th October 2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Yep, honest Tulwar. Maybe 19c.

Blade needs some cleaning. I would also check it for wootz.

Marius, I hope that you polish your car and your house is tidy because you are obsessed with etching...

mariusgmioc · 8th October 2019, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Marius, I hope that you polish your car and your house is tidy because you are obsessed with etching...

Because I am a compulsive-obsessive etcher!

Jim McDougall · 8th October 2019, 03:08 PM

Very nice and sound example Stu, and I would think it is certainly 19th c. of course. While I cannot say anything about wootz, I am more intrigued by the markings on the blade. The circle in the center of the grouping is hard to discern so am unclear on what it might represent, but the entirety of the marking group resembles European type configurations of much earlier, and the marks bracketing the orb look like the 'cogwheel' types (Wallace Coll., Mann,1962).
What is interesting is the style and placement which closely resembles those markings as if possibly Indian applied, in the manner we see the paired sickle marks in the same blade location.

It is pretty hard to tell if blade is European, but the yelman style suggests it is possible. Indian blade makers were pretty good, so hard to say. Obviously if wootz was present that would pretty well determine. Either way it would seem possible blade is earlier than hilt.

On the hilt, nice Rajasthan demeanor, and interesting arrangement of these striated discs that seem to occur in motif on hilts attributed to Hyderabad by Elgood in his Arabian arms book. The attached is one I have where these discs in more rudimentary fashion occur in the embossed silver of hilt.
The same devices appear on many Indian firearms, which seem mostly NW India.

Nice to see a solid scabbard with such an attractive tulwar.

The 'cogwheel' mark is seen in Mann, (op. cit. A768) and listed on a Swiss dagger, but this was widely used in Europe. It seems I have seen this entire mark group in one of the compendiums but cannot place yet, Im more inclined to think this blade European cavalry of possibly latter 18th. but more checking needed. Maybe European forum could help in this case?

kahnjar1 · 8th October 2019, 08:36 PM

Thank you Gentlemen for your comments....and YES I will clean the blade but have not at this stage had the time.
The blade marks interest me and hopefully someone might be able to positively identify them.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 9th October 2019, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Thank you Gentlemen for your comments....and YES I will clean the blade but have not at this stage had the time.
The blade marks interest me and hopefully someone might be able to positively identify them.
Stu

The blade marks truly are intriguing Stu, and at this point I truly sense they might be indicators of a European manufacture of this blade. They seem pretty weak, whether from poor application or genuine wear is hard to say, but may I suggest/implore restrained cleaning so as not to lose more of their presence.
I checked Gyngell and Wallace Collection but still cant find the mark, though it seems familiar.

If I may suggest placing the markings on European forum (along with noting presence on Indian tulwar of course) as guys like Udo and Jasper have handled many European blades and may offer insight or identification.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th October 2019, 03:09 PM

Here is The Wallace Collection of Indian Swords ...for interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aNbkO7pNI0

8th October 2019, 03:08 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,658	Very nice and sound example Stu, and I would think it is certainly 19th c. of course. While I cannot say anything about wootz, I am more intrigued by the markings on the blade. The circle in the center of the grouping is hard to discern so am unclear on what it might represent, but the entirety of the marking group resembles European type configurations of much earlier, and the marks bracketing the orb look like the 'cogwheel' types (Wallace Coll., Mann,1962). What is interesting is the style and placement which closely resembles those markings as if possibly Indian applied, in the manner we see the paired sickle marks in the same blade location. It is pretty hard to tell if blade is European, but the yelman style suggests it is possible. Indian blade makers were pretty good, so hard to say. Obviously if wootz was present that would pretty well determine. Either way it would seem possible blade is earlier than hilt. On the hilt, nice Rajasthan demeanor, and interesting arrangement of these striated discs that seem to occur in motif on hilts attributed to Hyderabad by Elgood in his Arabian arms book. The attached is one I have where these discs in more rudimentary fashion occur in the embossed silver of hilt. The same devices appear on many Indian firearms, which seem mostly NW India. Nice to see a solid scabbard with such an attractive tulwar. The 'cogwheel' mark is seen in Mann, (op. cit. A768) and listed on a Swiss dagger, but this was widely used in Europe. It seems I have seen this entire mark group in one of the compendiums but cannot place yet, Im more inclined to think this blade European cavalry of possibly latter 18th. but more checking needed. Maybe European forum could help in this case? Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 8th October 2019 at 03:25 PM.

8th October 2019, 05:35 AM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	Yep, honest Tulwar. Maybe 19c. Blade needs some cleaning. I would also check it for wootz.

8th October 2019, 08:36 PM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,810	Thank you Gentlemen for your comments....and YES I will clean the blade but have not at this stage had the time. The blade marks interest me and hopefully someone might be able to positively identify them. Stu

9th October 2019, 03:09 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Here is The Wallace Collection of Indian Swords ...for interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aNbkO7pNI0