3 Pulwars

[Jim McDougall]

Perfectly explained Dima! and I well understand their preference for isolation, after all, they were indeed always threatened by invasion. The 'Great Game' was not just a 19th century phenomenon (invasions through millenia) and their strategic location in Central Asia made it a most desirable real estate.

With the focus on firearms in the 19th c. it would seem that swords and blades were surely secondary in the arms game, so that incidental production, mostly remounting, probably continued in more isolated tribal levels.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

With the focus on firearms in the 19th c. it would seem that swords and blades were surely secondary in the arms game, so that incidental production, mostly remounting, probably continued in more isolated tribal levels.

A very interesting point is that the mass rejection of blades begins only with the beginning of the 20th century, when border tribes begin to receive rapid-fire rifles from Kabul.

[AHorsa]

Thank you Gentlemen for the replies and the interesting discussion.
I didn´t clean the splines yet, but one can see at the inscription of the middle one´s blade, that it is foldet steel (not sure if this already means wootz, most (european) blades I know are made from foldet steel). I´ll check the others once I find the time.

Best regards
Andreas

[ariel]

As a matter of fact, the great majority of European blades dating back to the 19 century were NOT made from folded steel ( mechanical damascus); by that time all major European blademakers used excellent monosteel ( which was the death knell for wootz and mechanical damascus of Eastern manufacture).
If you see a pattern, can you photograph it and post here?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mahratt

A very interesting point is that the mass rejection of blades begins only with the beginning of the 20th century, when border tribes begin to receive rapid-fire rifles from Kabul.

Well noted Dima, thank you for that key perspective which is of course much more accurate. The sword remained the primary weapon in many distinctly tribal cultures well into the 20th century, and the gun was often even vehemently rejected.

Andreas, thank you for the updates on the physical characteristics and close examinations of the properties of these blades. While personally I am limited in my understanding of metallurgy in these blades, it is fascinating to follow your well explained observations as well as those entering here in the discourse.
Great examples of very integral swords in Afghan history.

[AHorsa]

Hello Gentlemen,

thanks again for the interesting discussion.
It is not easy to catch with my camera, but I did my best to do a photo of the spot where it seems that one layer is a bit loose.

Ariel, you are surely right that from the 19th century on it was mainly monosteel used on european swords. My statement was more pertained to medieval swords and I also know folded steel from some 17th and 18th century swords.

Best regards
Andreas

[ariel]

I see a semblance of delamination and some letters, but ....I may need new glasses...

[ariel]

Sabers and rifles co- existed for a surprisingly long time.

But any new development in military technology eventually kills some older instrument or a tactic. Invention of glacis radically complicated the idea of siege ladders. Tanks killed the very idea of cavalry. And I am not talking about infantry advancing in ranks or wildly running forward. Omdurman proved the point.

“ Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not”

The battle of Lepanto was won by European galleasses and firearms over Ottoman galleys and bows. Missiles made anti-aircraft guns antiquated. Stingers at their introduction to Afghani mujaheddin were a laughingstock for the Soviet military, but within several months their helicopters and transport planes had to be grounded.

Nuclear weapons... this is another story.....

[mariusgmioc]

Hello gentlemen,

I would like to make a few observations.

Blades made of layers of steel are correctly called "laminated" and by no meaning, "damascus."

Longitudinal cracks in the spine are signs of "delamination" and they are by no means indication of wootz. These cracks just indicate that the blade was laminated.

When the layers of steel and the finishing of the blade are made so that the layered structure is deliberately revealed, it is called "pattern welded steel" and colloquially "pattern welded damascus" or simply "damascus."

Regarding the blades in the original thread, in my opinion, based solely on the photos, it would be impossible to assert their origin. Even with them in hand, I believe it would be difficult to say whether the blade is of Indian origin or locally made Afghan.

It is true that Northern India was housing several centres that were mass producing and trading blades, but blades were also made in Afghanistan and they bore very similar characteristics to the Indian blades.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Regarding the blades in the original thread, in my opinion, based solely on the photos, it would be impossible to assert their origin. Even with them in hand, I believe it would be difficult to say whether the blade is of Indian origin or locally made Afghan.

It is true that Northern India was housing several centres that were mass producing and trading blades, but blades were also made in Afghanistan and they bore very similar characteristics to the Indian blades.

Hi Marius. You're absolutely right. That is why I wrote before

Originally Posted by mahratt

blades may be of local origin

It is impossible to say for sure whether these blades were made in India or Afghanistan.