3 Pulwars

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It has always seemed odd that while we know many blades, copying European and other forms, were produced in India, especially in Rajasthan, we are seldom, if ever, made aware of sword blade making in Afghan context. We know that in producing guns such as the jezail, components such as EIC locks were copied in addition to using existing examples, but the barrels were typically imported from Persia or other regions in India's northwest. While the Afghans certainly could produce barrels, they simply usually didn't.

I wonder if that may have been the case with blades?

Jim, it is absolutely known that in Herat and Kabul there were private workshops producing edged weapons (blades). This was written by English officers in their memoirs. Most of these workshops in Kabul at the end of the 19th century were included in the Mashin Khan factory in Kabul and produced edged weapons for the army.

Of course, a significant part of the blades (and the sabers itself) came from India and Persia. But this did not stop the Afghans themselves from making blades.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Jim, it is absolutely known that in Herat and Kabul there were private workshops producing edged weapons (blades). This was written by English officers in their memoirs. Most of these workshops in Kabul at the end of the 19th century were included in the Mashin Khan factory in Kabul and produced edged weapons for the army.

Of course, a significant part of the blades (and the sabers itself) came from India and Persia. But this did not stop the Afghans themselves from making blades.

Thanks very much Dima, I do recall of course that many workshops were in the Mashin Khana factory complex in Kabul, but was unclear on their production of blades beyond the military ones. It stands to reason there were numbers of individual makers in native regions, its just that it does not seem widely known.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks very much Dima, I do recall of course that many workshops were in the Mashin Khana factory complex in Kabul, but was unclear on their production of blades beyond the military ones. It stands to reason there were numbers of individual makers in native regions, its just that it does not seem widely known.

You're absolutely right. In my opinion, this problem exists because Afghanistan was a very closed country in the 19th century. The emirs of Afghanistan supported this isolation. Very rarely, Europeans traveled to Afghanistan. They did not have the opportunity to study the blade manufacturing centers. And by the beginning of the 20th century, when firearms replaced blades, private production ceased to produce blades

[Jim McDougall]

Perfectly explained Dima! and I well understand their preference for isolation, after all, they were indeed always threatened by invasion. The 'Great Game' was not just a 19th century phenomenon (invasions through millenia) and their strategic location in Central Asia made it a most desirable real estate.

With the focus on firearms in the 19th c. it would seem that swords and blades were surely secondary in the arms game, so that incidental production, mostly remounting, probably continued in more isolated tribal levels.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

With the focus on firearms in the 19th c. it would seem that swords and blades were surely secondary in the arms game, so that incidental production, mostly remounting, probably continued in more isolated tribal levels.

A very interesting point is that the mass rejection of blades begins only with the beginning of the 20th century, when border tribes begin to receive rapid-fire rifles from Kabul.

[AHorsa]

Thank you Gentlemen for the replies and the interesting discussion.
I didn´t clean the splines yet, but one can see at the inscription of the middle one´s blade, that it is foldet steel (not sure if this already means wootz, most (european) blades I know are made from foldet steel). I´ll check the others once I find the time.

Best regards
Andreas

[ariel]

As a matter of fact, the great majority of European blades dating back to the 19 century were NOT made from folded steel ( mechanical damascus); by that time all major European blademakers used excellent monosteel ( which was the death knell for wootz and mechanical damascus of Eastern manufacture).
If you see a pattern, can you photograph it and post here?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mahratt

A very interesting point is that the mass rejection of blades begins only with the beginning of the 20th century, when border tribes begin to receive rapid-fire rifles from Kabul.

Well noted Dima, thank you for that key perspective which is of course much more accurate. The sword remained the primary weapon in many distinctly tribal cultures well into the 20th century, and the gun was often even vehemently rejected.

Andreas, thank you for the updates on the physical characteristics and close examinations of the properties of these blades. While personally I am limited in my understanding of metallurgy in these blades, it is fascinating to follow your well explained observations as well as those entering here in the discourse.
Great examples of very integral swords in Afghan history.

[AHorsa]

Hello Gentlemen,

thanks again for the interesting discussion.
It is not easy to catch with my camera, but I did my best to do a photo of the spot where it seems that one layer is a bit loose.

Ariel, you are surely right that from the 19th century on it was mainly monosteel used on european swords. My statement was more pertained to medieval swords and I also know folded steel from some 17th and 18th century swords.

Best regards
Andreas