Unusually large indian/persian axe ,tourist maybe ?

[Kubur]

I'm in between the positions here:
yes they are ritual or parade axes
yes they could have been used as weapons if they were brought on battlefield.
I can rip half of your face off with an iron or i can stab you with a butter knife.
As far i know derwish axes were also used as weapons sometimes.
Even not sharpened they could have been used as blunt weapons or maces...
Kubur

[ariel]

My axe " Bible" is James Gamble " Axes of war and power"
P. 14: virtually identical Persian axe defined as " parade" and dated to 1875.
His sine qua non definition of a "war axe" is a V-construction.

Can we maim an opponent with that axe, slicing half of his face off, stabbing him with a straight protrusion at the top or just smashing his head by using an axe as a mace? Sure. But this is a AXE, and axes were supposed to cleave , not stab or bonk ( even in British jargon:-)) For that we have other weapons.

[Ian]

Am I right in thinking the axe heads were cut from sheet metal, divided in two, and the halves welded to a multifaceted tube for mounting. The beveled edge suggests that the blades are of fairly uniform thinness throughout. Are the blades iron or steel?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Reference:
A. https://www.academia.edu/36217967/Su..._Mahdist_Sudan

In this exceptional reference are details on Sufi use of weapons and traditions dating back centuries. In fact the Luttis; a sect of the Sufi, used these weapons in gang fighting to good effect and were feared amongst the population. The paper discusses the influence of these decorated arms on Sudanese weapons of the Mahdi.

I think what is interesting is that such arms were used across regions spanning the entire Muslim world and not confined to any one country. In other words they went where the Sufi sect went. The lethality of two headed axes arises here and it may be that such weapons were only used for shock effect per se since the idea may not have been to kill the opponent but to suppress as outlined above by Ariel perhaps with a "bonk on the head" rather than to remove it!

Deaths however, were not uncommon in these Sufi groups against their enemies. They used other weapons to boot including clubs.. In using two headed and single headed moon shaped axes I doubt that the idea was to massacre the opposition.. as also noted by Kubur. Ordinary Sufis carried the axe as outlined in Reference A as a tradition.

In the case of the project axe at #1 typically the haft is given the reptile skin treatment . In the battle concept talismanic infused, decorated calligraphy, on arms at the time of Omdurman (not the Mahdi but by his successor) these axe heads and alam acted like battle emblems or flags meant to inspire warriors in the attack...augmenting the profuse decorated flags shirts and other weaponry on the battlefield.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Reference:
A. https://www.academia.edu/36217967/Su..._Mahdist_Sudan

In this exceptional reference are details on Sufi use of weapons and traditions dating back centuries. In fact the Luttis; a sect of the Sufi, used these weapons in gang fighting to good effect and were feared amongst the population. The paper discusses the influence of these decorated arms on Sudanese weapons of the Mahdi.

I think what is interesting is that such arms were used across regions spanning the entire Muslim world and not confined to any one country. In other words they went where the Sufi sect went. The lethality of two headed axes arises here and it may be that such weapons were only used for shock effect per se since the idea may not have been to kill the opponent but to suppress as outlined above by Ariel perhaps with a "bonk on the head" rather than to remove it!

Deaths however, were not uncommon in these Sufi groups against their enemies. They used other weapons to boot including clubs.. In using two headed and single headed moon shaped axes I doubt that the idea was to massacre the opposition.. as also noted by Kubur. Ordinary Sufis carried the axe as outlined in Reference A as a tradition.

In the case of the project axe at #1 typically the haft is given the reptile skin treatment . In the battle concept talismanic infused, decorated calligraphy, on arms at the time of Omdurman (not the Mahdi but by his successor) these axe heads and alam acted like battle emblems or flags meant to inspire warriors in the attack...augmenting the profuse decorated flags shirts and other weaponry on the battlefield.

This is outstanding insight !! Thank you. I had not heard of the Lutti sect, but of course knew of the Sufi prevalence in Sudan. Very well pointed out about the acid etched thuluth on these items, much as on sword blades and the profound religious symbolism involved.
As noted these and the alam were often a kind of regrouping standard and very much were seen as inspirational in action.

It seems I had seen references to these double head axes in Indian context (I believe in the reference by Haider, not at hand at the moment) but that these were court arms and not used in battle.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

these double head axes in Indian context (I believe in the reference by Haider, not at hand at the moment) but that these were court arms and not used in battle.

That's strange and in fact right, it seems that most of double head axes are ritual.

Guys do you know any Indian or Persian battle double head axes???

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Kubur

That's strange and in fact right, it seems that most of double head axes are ritual.

Guys do you know any Indian or Persian battle double head axes???

Yes indeed , here is my Indian all steel double headed axe

[ariel]

The first pic shows clearly that the blades were indeed cut from sheet metal and then “swallow- tailed” into the massive tube. Likely, welded after that.