Kaskara thoughts, please.

Edster · 20th September 2019, 04:47 PM

Iain,

I concur with the Kull blade attribution, but can't agree on the notion that the guard may have been imported from Europe. Here's why.

We have only two references to imported guards; your French one and an 1871 observation by F-G Garnier that German blades and GUARDS were imported to the Suakin port from Egypt.

We don't know their design. material and appearance of these purported imports. With the exception of the copper alloy cast grips often seen on Thuluth swords (see attachment), I have never never seen a kaskara with a guard other than the traditional 4-piece forge welded design. Also, I don't know if the Thuluth guard has a slot or how the blade, guard and grip are secured together.

The kaskara's method of securing/wedging the blade, grip and guard into a unified whole seems to me to be unique; at least I'm not aware of other ethnic origin type swords secured in a similar manner.

I understand that European guards were made with a central slot that fit over the tang as shown in Oakeshott's styles. Maybe Arabic, Persian and Indian were similar as well. I just don't know.
https://myarmoury.com/feature_oakeshott4.html

The quillon flares are wide and first rate, though not as extreme and as the Ali Dinar regalia & gift swords produced apparently only in his workshops during his reign (1899-1916). I doubt that European workshops would bother to make a 4-piece forge welded design with flared quillons just as an extra export Sudanese market item when a must cheaper cast copper alloy unit may work as well. I understand the one-piece kaskara guard innovation was not developed until c.1940.

Best regards,
Ed

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2019, 05:12 AM

Just going through piles of notes I finally excavated here in the bookmobile, and found some interesting passim notes.

First I am inclined to agree on the lack of substantial evidence for the import of guards, that single reference (1871)does not seem adequate to be convincing. Still the
idea of Solingen producing blades specifically for export to markets in North Africa seems quite logical. In notes I found a reference Artzi appears to have made suggesting just that in 2005, but I cannot find more detail other than that note.

I. Palme ("Travels in Kordofan" ) notes that the lion and cross and orb were most popular in Darfur. I am trying to find the book that has reference to the blades seen in Darfur in 1880s which at that time the author suggested blades were coming in from Austria. I think it was Slatin, and it seems the lion and cross and orb were mentioned. Naturally these would have been Solingen blades.

The application of the cross and orb and lion were probably as Iain has suggested, talismanic versions of European marks which became perceived as power or magic . Briggs notes (p.40) that such copper marks were applied by natives, and by referencing Henri Lhote (1954, p.9-12).

While many of these notes apply to Taureg weapons, the conventions and superstitious perspectives certainly transmitted via the trade networks just as the blades into Sudanese context.
We know through Briggs that the fly, as well as standing lion and cross and orb were found on Taureg chiefs blades (Raidera and Adembar, 1917, near Agades). The Briggs reference here was Gabus (1958).

The lion and fly were also found on blades in Asmara, Eritrea.

Clearly the blades using these markings were well known and diffused through trade networks for some time. Kull's active period in Solingen ended c. 1860 so these blades circulated for generations.

Returning to the copper/brass used in application of these markings, apparently there was an apotropaic value which had to do with neutralizing the potential for the blade breaking ("Aspects of the Use of Copper in Pre Colonial West Africa", E. Herbert, Journal of African History, Vol. 14, #2, 1973, p. 179-94).
While obviously here referring to West Africa, the concepts easily spread trans Sahara.

ariel · 21st September 2019, 03:41 PM

It is virtually identical to mine that was discussed 3 months ago:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search...archid=1618625

Funny, but I have already mentioned at that time what appears to be the very same kaskara that was acquired by mross and shown in this thread:-)

At the end of the day, many of our objects have " six degrees of separation"

Edster · 21st September 2019, 07:27 PM

Jim,

I finally found my Pallme (1837-39) notes. He mentions (p.298) the two-edge swords of Austrian manufacture with, as you observe, lion and cross & orb. Locals prefer blades with a death's head from the workshops of Peter Kull. He also lists other items of commerce from Austria. Bezdek lists Peter Kull's cat & skull active 1830-1870.

I get the impression from remembering the kaskara shared by forum members are heavily skewed toward Kull marks. This suggests that many blades were imported into Sudan in mid-19th c. (It would be interesting survey/create a database of all the forum kaskara plus museum collections, etc. (imported & presumed locally made). This may allow us to establish which makers were highly represented and that they may have purposefully manufactured for the Sudanese market.)

In my kaskara cross guard essay (.pdf version) I do a Summary with Historical Notes (p. 17ff) of travelers narratives that mention the import of sword blades and their qualities, etc.. Brown's 1792-98 appears to be the oldest reference. Burchardt (1811-12) says that 3,000/year are imported. This and the other references supports your observation that there was substantial market for European blades in the Sudanese contex.

Other research entries since that paper went to press are below. No doubt your research would add much to the chronology.

1822-1824. Dixon Denham & Hugh Clapperton's Narrative of Travels & Discoveries in Northern & Central Africa, pub. 1828. Clapperton while in Bornou reports on a body of cavalry armed with straight broad blades “formerly wielded by the knights of Malta.” They were imported via Tripoli and re-mounted in Kano for use throughout central Africa.

Edward Lane in Description of Egypt, 1828 lists among an inventory of goods exported from Asyut to Darfur: straight sword-blades of German manufacturer, a few firearms, and a little gunpowder, p. 267-268. Reference graciously provided by Terence Walz.

1859-1860. Robert Hartman reports in The Journey of Baron Adelbert von Barinim Through North East Africa. In Cairo bazaars; old & new weapons, rifles, pistols, sabres, yataghans, daggers, battle axes, maces & lances, p. 59. The annual caravan from Siut (Asyut in Upper Egypt) to Darfur shipped “some straight heavy blades, Arabian muskets, pistols and sabres, p.60.

Mross/Ariel

I found another kaskara very much like yours from Royal Armouries, XXVIS.204 with copper cat/lion and cross & orb. No fly was mentioned. As Jim observes, there seems to be a large family of these blades.
https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ject-9627.html

Best,
Ed

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2019, 10:44 PM

Thank you so much Ed, excellent insight of course, and thank you for adding a list of resources. I cannot find my Pallme at the moment, and was relying on my scribbled notes!
It is interesting that Austria was listed as the source for these rampant lion and cross and orb blades I think the source I had which I was thinking of, but have yet to find, is the Slatin book. As he was of the Austrian contingent and in fact in official capacity in Darfur, I think the assumption was these were Austrian blades. The mention of the Mahdi's personal sword having a blade with the Holy Roman double head eagle and Vivat Carolus much added to such presumption.

It seems that while there a good number of cross and orb, rampant lion and typically stamped fly marks which are Kull blades, I have yet to see one with the deaths head. The absence of the fly stamp adds to the presumption that these copper filled lion/cross +orb blades must have been prepared at some entrepot after arrival from European trade sources. The blades without the fly or makers stamp were likely 'blanks' which may have been produced by auxiliary shops in Solingen to augment the orders of blades for export.

20th September 2019, 04:47 PM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Iain, I concur with the Kull blade attribution, but can't agree on the notion that the guard may have been imported from Europe. Here's why. We have only two references to imported guards; your French one and an 1871 observation by F-G Garnier that German blades and GUARDS were imported to the Suakin port from Egypt. We don't know their design. material and appearance of these purported imports. With the exception of the copper alloy cast grips often seen on Thuluth swords (see attachment), I have never never seen a kaskara with a guard other than the traditional 4-piece forge welded design. Also, I don't know if the Thuluth guard has a slot or how the blade, guard and grip are secured together. The kaskara's method of securing/wedging the blade, grip and guard into a unified whole seems to me to be unique; at least I'm not aware of other ethnic origin type swords secured in a similar manner. I understand that European guards were made with a central slot that fit over the tang as shown in Oakeshott's styles. Maybe Arabic, Persian and Indian were similar as well. I just don't know. https://myarmoury.com/feature_oakeshott4.html The quillon flares are wide and first rate, though not as extreme and as the Ali Dinar regalia & gift swords produced apparently only in his workshops during his reign (1899-1916). I doubt that European workshops would bother to make a 4-piece forge welded design with flared quillons just as an extra export Sudanese market item when a must cheaper cast copper alloy unit may work as well. I understand the one-piece kaskara guard innovation was not developed until c.1940. Best regards, Ed Attached Images Last edited by Edster; 20th September 2019 at 04:59 PM.

21st September 2019, 05:12 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Just going through piles of notes I finally excavated here in the bookmobile, and found some interesting passim notes. First I am inclined to agree on the lack of substantial evidence for the import of guards, that single reference (1871)does not seem adequate to be convincing. Still the idea of Solingen producing blades specifically for export to markets in North Africa seems quite logical. In notes I found a reference Artzi appears to have made suggesting just that in 2005, but I cannot find more detail other than that note. I. Palme ("Travels in Kordofan" ) notes that the lion and cross and orb were most popular in Darfur. I am trying to find the book that has reference to the blades seen in Darfur in 1880s which at that time the author suggested blades were coming in from Austria. I think it was Slatin, and it seems the lion and cross and orb were mentioned. Naturally these would have been Solingen blades. The application of the cross and orb and lion were probably as Iain has suggested, talismanic versions of European marks which became perceived as power or magic . Briggs notes (p.40) that such copper marks were applied by natives, and by referencing Henri Lhote (1954, p.9-12). While many of these notes apply to Taureg weapons, the conventions and superstitious perspectives certainly transmitted via the trade networks just as the blades into Sudanese context. We know through Briggs that the fly, as well as standing lion and cross and orb were found on Taureg chiefs blades (Raidera and Adembar, 1917, near Agades). The Briggs reference here was Gabus (1958). The lion and fly were also found on blades in Asmara, Eritrea. Clearly the blades using these markings were well known and diffused through trade networks for some time. Kull's active period in Solingen ended c. 1860 so these blades circulated for generations. Returning to the copper/brass used in application of these markings, apparently there was an apotropaic value which had to do with neutralizing the potential for the blade breaking ("Aspects of the Use of Copper in Pre Colonial West Africa", E. Herbert, Journal of African History, Vol. 14, #2, 1973, p. 179-94). While obviously here referring to West Africa, the concepts easily spread trans Sahara.

21st September 2019, 03:41 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is virtually identical to mine that was discussed 3 months ago: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search...archid=1618625 Funny, but I have already mentioned at that time what appears to be the very same kaskara that was acquired by mross and shown in this thread:-) At the end of the day, many of our objects have " six degrees of separation"

21st September 2019, 07:27 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Jim, I finally found my Pallme (1837-39) notes. He mentions (p.298) the two-edge swords of Austrian manufacture with, as you observe, lion and cross & orb. Locals prefer blades with a death's head from the workshops of Peter Kull. He also lists other items of commerce from Austria. Bezdek lists Peter Kull's cat & skull active 1830-1870. I get the impression from remembering the kaskara shared by forum members are heavily skewed toward Kull marks. This suggests that many blades were imported into Sudan in mid-19th c. (It would be interesting survey/create a database of all the forum kaskara plus museum collections, etc. (imported & presumed locally made). This may allow us to establish which makers were highly represented and that they may have purposefully manufactured for the Sudanese market.) In my kaskara cross guard essay (.pdf version) I do a Summary with Historical Notes (p. 17ff) of travelers narratives that mention the import of sword blades and their qualities, etc.. Brown's 1792-98 appears to be the oldest reference. Burchardt (1811-12) says that 3,000/year are imported. This and the other references supports your observation that there was substantial market for European blades in the Sudanese contex. Other research entries since that paper went to press are below. No doubt your research would add much to the chronology. 1822-1824. Dixon Denham & Hugh Clapperton's Narrative of Travels & Discoveries in Northern & Central Africa, pub. 1828. Clapperton while in Bornou reports on a body of cavalry armed with straight broad blades “formerly wielded by the knights of Malta.” They were imported via Tripoli and re-mounted in Kano for use throughout central Africa. Edward Lane in Description of Egypt, 1828 lists among an inventory of goods exported from Asyut to Darfur: straight sword-blades of German manufacturer, a few firearms, and a little gunpowder, p. 267-268. Reference graciously provided by Terence Walz. 1859-1860. Robert Hartman reports in The Journey of Baron Adelbert von Barinim Through North East Africa. In Cairo bazaars; old & new weapons, rifles, pistols, sabres, yataghans, daggers, battle axes, maces & lances, p. 59. The annual caravan from Siut (Asyut in Upper Egypt) to Darfur shipped “some straight heavy blades, Arabian muskets, pistols and sabres, p.60. Mross/Ariel I found another kaskara very much like yours from Royal Armouries, XXVIS.204 with copper cat/lion and cross & orb. No fly was mentioned. As Jim observes, there seems to be a large family of these blades. https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ject-9627.html Best, Ed

21st September 2019, 10:44 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Thank you so much Ed, excellent insight of course, and thank you for adding a list of resources. I cannot find my Pallme at the moment, and was relying on my scribbled notes! It is interesting that Austria was listed as the source for these rampant lion and cross and orb blades I think the source I had which I was thinking of, but have yet to find, is the Slatin book. As he was of the Austrian contingent and in fact in official capacity in Darfur, I think the assumption was these were Austrian blades. The mention of the Mahdi's personal sword having a blade with the Holy Roman double head eagle and Vivat Carolus much added to such presumption. It seems that while there a good number of cross and orb, rampant lion and typically stamped fly marks which are Kull blades, I have yet to see one with the deaths head. The absence of the fly stamp adds to the presumption that these copper filled lion/cross +orb blades must have been prepared at some entrepot after arrival from European trade sources. The blades without the fly or makers stamp were likely 'blanks' which may have been produced by auxiliary shops in Solingen to augment the orders of blades for export.