Old? Khukuri with kora hilt

ariel · 29th April 2006, 02:11 PM

Don't underestimate the bayonet: the Brits in India proved it's advantage over a sword. After all, it is a spear. Parrying sword cuts with the rifle is quite easy and you can use both ends: the blade and the butt. Bayonet routines were quite developed and in close quarters it is a tremendously useful weapon.
As for the fine-boned Ghurkas, I asked my daughter to wield a Kora: the upper disk still bit into the wrist and she was very uncomfortable. Perhaps, there are some esthetic or other reasons for the construction of Kora's handle (just like Tulwar's), but mechanically it is awkward becase it prevents full abduction of the wrist joint. With a Kora, no movement except for a wide-arc hacking is possible. And, as they say in fencing , "It's all in the wrist"

The best sword handle for a one-hand grip from the mechanical point of view is Polish "hussar" saber: the thumb ring switches the axis in such a way that the blade becomes an extension of the forearm. Old fencing swords had a molded handle requiring a two-finger control of the blade but the introduction of "pistol" grips gave an incredible advantage, which is based on the same principle as the thumb-ring handles.
Swords are neat mechanical contraptions and were improved upon for milennia. Koras adhered to old traditions far too long and missed the path of progress (if one defines progress as a more effective way of chopping your fellow human being to pieces).

spiral · 29th April 2006, 02:40 PM

I would say kora should be used without wrist flexing in circular downward motions from the shoulder. It wasnt built for fencing.

Thats what I mean by diffence in concept of technique.

Its not the best weapon ever invented, but I wouldnt want to be hit with one by a fatalistic warrier who belives in both fate & reincarnation.

Excelent weapon defending ramparts & the down hill do or die charge as well that were so favoured in Nepal in days of old.

Or for controling the local population, feudal style , I suppose.

But I dont think anyone was saying that more effective sword designs havent been in existance. Its certanly not a sword I would pick to take to battle.

But they are still an intresting part of Nepali history I think.

I like bayonets, my slighty tounge in cheek reference/comment {due to the fact Kora seem to not to have been used much for battle after 186o or so wheras AK 47 came about 100 years later.} was about the AK .47 /AKM seris bayonet which is a tottaly blunt but sure even a blunt blade will penetrate on the end of an 8lb rifle.

But fundemetaly the soviet bayonets for the last 50 years are designed as wire cutters. They do that well. Works for intimidation as well. Would work better ay a bayonet if it was sharp though.

But Give me a 1903 British Bayonet, 1918 Swiss or equivilant any day. Now that is a bayonet.

Spiral

Emanuel · 29th April 2006, 04:35 PM

N2S, Ariel and Spiral, thank you for the answers. Did Ghurkas ever wear gloves or any sort of gauntlets?
A few more questions about the use of these weapons: where was the "sweet spot" located. Did the experienced warrior try to hit with the wide tip, the concave underside of the forward-curving part of the blade, or with the more or less straight part. As I understand concave blades, the cut involves a draw/saw motion as well, the concavity pulling the blade into the wound. Since the awkward hilt did not allow fancy movement, how was the cut achieved? Ultimately, due to the shoulder-led swing was the kora any more efficient than a straight blade?
To my eyes they are still magnificent weapons, and somehow that hilt just "fits", better than the tulwar hilts.

I think many fighters around the world can attest to the efficiency of the AK-47. Does any country still issue bayonets to its troops?

Manolo

spiral · 29th April 2006, 04:44 PM

Some British Gurkhas wore gloves. Not sure about Nepali army.

The shoulders circular motian automaticly provides a pull cut with the locked wrist., after reaching maximum forward point of extention try it and see.

I agree AK47 is good!

British troops are issued bayonets, & many countries that use AKM/AK 47.still do .{so evry infantryman can deal with barbed wire.

}

Spiral

29th April 2006, 02:11 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Don't underestimate the bayonet: the Brits in India proved it's advantage over a sword. After all, it is a spear. Parrying sword cuts with the rifle is quite easy and you can use both ends: the blade and the butt. Bayonet routines were quite developed and in close quarters it is a tremendously useful weapon. As for the fine-boned Ghurkas, I asked my daughter to wield a Kora: the upper disk still bit into the wrist and she was very uncomfortable. Perhaps, there are some esthetic or other reasons for the construction of Kora's handle (just like Tulwar's), but mechanically it is awkward becase it prevents full abduction of the wrist joint. With a Kora, no movement except for a wide-arc hacking is possible. And, as they say in fencing , "It's all in the wrist" The best sword handle for a one-hand grip from the mechanical point of view is Polish "hussar" saber: the thumb ring switches the axis in such a way that the blade becomes an extension of the forearm. Old fencing swords had a molded handle requiring a two-finger control of the blade but the introduction of "pistol" grips gave an incredible advantage, which is based on the same principle as the thumb-ring handles. Swords are neat mechanical contraptions and were improved upon for milennia. Koras adhered to old traditions far too long and missed the path of progress (if one defines progress as a more effective way of chopping your fellow human being to pieces).

29th April 2006, 02:40 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I would say kora should be used without wrist flexing in circular downward motions from the shoulder. It wasnt built for fencing. Thats what I mean by diffence in concept of technique. Its not the best weapon ever invented, but I wouldnt want to be hit with one by a fatalistic warrier who belives in both fate & reincarnation. Excelent weapon defending ramparts & the down hill do or die charge as well that were so favoured in Nepal in days of old. Or for controling the local population, feudal style , I suppose. But I dont think anyone was saying that more effective sword designs havent been in existance. Its certanly not a sword I would pick to take to battle. But they are still an intresting part of Nepali history I think. I like bayonets, my slighty tounge in cheek reference/comment {due to the fact Kora seem to not to have been used much for battle after 186o or so wheras AK 47 came about 100 years later.} was about the AK .47 /AKM seris bayonet which is a tottaly blunt but sure even a blunt blade will penetrate on the end of an 8lb rifle. But fundemetaly the soviet bayonets for the last 50 years are designed as wire cutters. They do that well. Works for intimidation as well. Would work better ay a bayonet if it was sharp though. But Give me a 1903 British Bayonet, 1918 Swiss or equivilant any day. Now that is a bayonet. Spiral

29th April 2006, 04:35 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	N2S, Ariel and Spiral, thank you for the answers. Did Ghurkas ever wear gloves or any sort of gauntlets? A few more questions about the use of these weapons: where was the "sweet spot" located. Did the experienced warrior try to hit with the wide tip, the concave underside of the forward-curving part of the blade, or with the more or less straight part. As I understand concave blades, the cut involves a draw/saw motion as well, the concavity pulling the blade into the wound. Since the awkward hilt did not allow fancy movement, how was the cut achieved? Ultimately, due to the shoulder-led swing was the kora any more efficient than a straight blade? To my eyes they are still magnificent weapons, and somehow that hilt just "fits", better than the tulwar hilts. I think many fighters around the world can attest to the efficiency of the AK-47. Does any country still issue bayonets to its troops? Manolo

29th April 2006, 04:44 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Some British Gurkhas wore gloves. Not sure about Nepali army. The shoulders circular motian automaticly provides a pull cut with the locked wrist., after reaching maximum forward point of extention try it and see. I agree AK47 is good! British troops are issued bayonets, & many countries that use AKM/AK 47.still do .{so evry infantryman can deal with barbed wire. } Spiral