Frontier Arithmetic: The Afghan Jezail

kahnjar1 · 12th August 2019, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Stu, thank you!!! These are excellent images, and I think what I like most about these guns is their inherently rugged charm, so appropriate for the tribal warriors of the Khyber and its environs.

The 'standing' lion is of course Persian, and while officially the Lion and Sun of the Pahlavi dynasty of late in Iran, it was of course prevalent in the Qajar dynasty preceding. In Afghanistan, as has been noted, the influences of Persia are profoundly present much as throughout India with the Mughals.
This is an amazing lock, and honestly the first I have seen with the Persian lion. With the previously noted presence of England in Persia and the use of the EIC markings on locks produced there, this is fascinating.

The 'date' on this is in characters I do not recognize, but clearly in imitation of EIC configuration, and it is tempting to consider the Persian Lion and Sun were deliberately placed in lieu of the EIC rampant lion as well.

The percussion lock example is also fascinating and unusual. It will be interesting to find what these 'I' characters added in such a grouping with periods mean. From the obsessive research I have been involved in the past weeks, it seems the percussion locks (of c. 1830s+) were not particularly favored by the tribesmen as obviously, the caps were hard to come by while flints and powder were not.

Hi Jim,
That's the one!! Thank you for posting . The sun??? behind the lion shows clearly on my lock, so at least we now know that it is a Persian lock, or at least a copy of one, and the date is shown in Farsi.
Quality of workmanship of the inside is poor IMHO so one assumes that this is a backyard made lock. I suppose it is possible that the lock plate itself could be original, with the working parts added in a backyard assembly. I guess we will never know for sure.......
Stu.

Jim McDougall · 13th August 2019, 04:39 AM

In researching EIC markings quite some time ago, I wondered why the '4' atop the quartered heart which seems to appeared on this bale mark sometime about 1770 according to some sources. The quartered heart with VEIC initials remained the company bale mark until 1808, when the rampant lion image replaced it.
Prior to the quartered heart, the mark used was a circle containing the initials G.C.E. (= Governor and Company of East India Merchants).

As noted earlier, the 'flaunched' heart with VEIC was presumed to be a storekeepers mark, and not used as widely as the other.

Returning to the '4', knowing that the EIC markings were intended as bale marks, thus marking company property and goods. One source suggested that such bale marks were also intended to protect property, and had certain amulet oriented imbuement. The '4' in astrological and magic/occult symbolism represented Jupiter , good fortune and protection.
I had noticed that the 4 appeared in numerous other merchants marks, as well as those used by printers and tailors etc.

To me this was far from the suggestions that the 4 was simply an altered cross and orb to avoid offending Muslim trade contacts. When I suggested the possible magical or protective properties as a possible explanation for the 4 atop the heart, it was not exactly well received, however seemed to me still an option.

I add this material here mostly to illustrate the variations of markings which might occur on jezail locks.

rickystl · 13th August 2019, 05:43 PM

Hello again. This Tread is producing some very interesting reading.

Here is my favorite Jazail from my collection. It is only moderately decorated. I had this one restored to firing condition, which I guess is why it is my favorite. LOL This one has a genuine EIC lock dated 1805 with the tail of the lockplate marked: BARNETT, who was a prolific English gun/lock maker during this period. Not only did he make locks/guns for the military, many of his locks were used on trade guns (less the EIC markings) exported to North America.
Notice the internal parts of the lock are up to European snuff. The lock operates strong and reliable.
The barrel was originally rifled, and now has a new rifled liner. But this is a good typical example of a Jazail with a lighter than normal barrel weight that is easy to shoulder. Usually the barrels are extra front-heavy as previously mentioned. Apparently, the original owner wanted something a bit more portable and easy to carry.

I'll post some others with different lock variations as discussed.

Rick

kronckew · 13th August 2019, 06:30 PM

Cool, a lot better to my western eyes w/o the garish decor.

Jim McDougall · 13th August 2019, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Cool, a lot better to my western eyes w/o the garish decor.

LOL! OK, point taken...….I think of Patton when somebody called the grips on his paired pistols pearl...…...instead of the actual ivory!!!

You're right on that though, rugged frontier charm is the real deal, but despite the decoration on mine, its character and the lock and very heft called to me.
From what I have read, these warriors were often enthralled by elaborate and flamboyant decoration in their estimation suggesting power etc.

kahnjar1 · 14th August 2019, 05:45 AM

Maybe this is not out of place (courtesay Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ea...w=1571&bih=786
Stu

Jim McDougall · 14th August 2019, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Maybe this is not out of place (courtesay Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ea...w=1571&bih=786
Stu

Not even Stu!!! Perfect links with great history and overview of the EIC, and the other link very comprehensive with many, many views of these gun locks.
The Wiki history on EIC notes the ' mystical sign of four' I was describing in the heart marking of EIC, with those type symbolisms instead of the disguised cross notion.
Thanks very much.

Jim McDougall · 13th August 2019, 07:03 PM

Indeed this thread has brought in some fascinating reading, and again, Im learning a lot through you and the guys here. I have been hard at reading, finding old notes and engulfed in the examples and details you guys are adding.

Your example you have shown here is outstanding, and reflects the 'rugged frontier charm' I have noted with the guns of these Khyber tribes as a no-nonsense fighting weapon. It is good you have restored it to its inherent usable character, and clearly well cared for it.

I know I have seen the BARNETT name a good number of times as a well known maker of these locks for these India pattern muskets. While he and Wilson appear among the most prolific, there are others listed and I wanted to add them with what I found in yesterdays reading:
Blair; Sutherland; Brander; Egg; Goff; Henshaw; Ketland; Potts; Rea; Tow and Twigg.

Another note I found was that the year by the EIC heart or other (such as Tower or BO =board of ordnance) reflected a contract year rather than the year of manufacture. Possibly that explains the same year appearing on so many locks. Apparently 1779 and 1793 were two notable years.

It seems in 1797 the short land pattern production was ceased for that of the cheaper India pattern.

One thing I was thinking of with these jezails, and these authentic locks by these outstanding British gunsmith names. It seems in most cases, these guns are rather dismissed by the broader sector of gun collectors, and it is noted they move rather slowly and do not command high prices. It was that kind of feel I had when I acquired my example, that among collectors these would appeal only to a relatively small sector.

However, these well named locks WOULD be in high demand, for uh, 'innovative' sellers 'improving' existing British gun components (not that this ever happens

). I have seen the named lock alone of these flintlocks go for six hundred or more dollars.
I hope that these amazing frontier guns are safely absorbed by those of us fascinated by their history are kept intact as found in situ from the Afghan regions. Obviously these locks were reused and refurbished many times in their tribal surroundings, but keeping them in their final incarnation I would consider most important.

Just some added notes and thinking as the discussion continues, and again, I thank you all so much!!!

13th August 2019, 04:39 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	EIC bale marks In researching EIC markings quite some time ago, I wondered why the '4' atop the quartered heart which seems to appeared on this bale mark sometime about 1770 according to some sources. The quartered heart with VEIC initials remained the company bale mark until 1808, when the rampant lion image replaced it. Prior to the quartered heart, the mark used was a circle containing the initials G.C.E. (= Governor and Company of East India Merchants). As noted earlier, the 'flaunched' heart with VEIC was presumed to be a storekeepers mark, and not used as widely as the other. Returning to the '4', knowing that the EIC markings were intended as bale marks, thus marking company property and goods. One source suggested that such bale marks were also intended to protect property, and had certain amulet oriented imbuement. The '4' in astrological and magic/occult symbolism represented Jupiter , good fortune and protection. I had noticed that the 4 appeared in numerous other merchants marks, as well as those used by printers and tailors etc. To me this was far from the suggestions that the 4 was simply an altered cross and orb to avoid offending Muslim trade contacts. When I suggested the possible magical or protective properties as a possible explanation for the 4 atop the heart, it was not exactly well received, however seemed to me still an option. I add this material here mostly to illustrate the variations of markings which might occur on jezail locks. Attached Images

13th August 2019, 05:43 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hello again. This Tread is producing some very interesting reading. Here is my favorite Jazail from my collection. It is only moderately decorated. I had this one restored to firing condition, which I guess is why it is my favorite. LOL This one has a genuine EIC lock dated 1805 with the tail of the lockplate marked: BARNETT, who was a prolific English gun/lock maker during this period. Not only did he make locks/guns for the military, many of his locks were used on trade guns (less the EIC markings) exported to North America. Notice the internal parts of the lock are up to European snuff. The lock operates strong and reliable. The barrel was originally rifled, and now has a new rifled liner. But this is a good typical example of a Jazail with a lighter than normal barrel weight that is easy to shoulder. Usually the barrels are extra front-heavy as previously mentioned. Apparently, the original owner wanted something a bit more portable and easy to carry. I'll post some others with different lock variations as discussed. Rick Attached Images

14th August 2019, 05:45 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	East India Company History & Images Maybe this is not out of place (courtesay Wikipedia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ea...w=1571&bih=786 Stu

13th August 2019, 06:30 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Cool, a lot better to my western eyes w/o the garish decor.

13th August 2019, 07:03 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Indeed this thread has brought in some fascinating reading, and again, Im learning a lot through you and the guys here. I have been hard at reading, finding old notes and engulfed in the examples and details you guys are adding. Your example you have shown here is outstanding, and reflects the 'rugged frontier charm' I have noted with the guns of these Khyber tribes as a no-nonsense fighting weapon. It is good you have restored it to its inherent usable character, and clearly well cared for it. I know I have seen the BARNETT name a good number of times as a well known maker of these locks for these India pattern muskets. While he and Wilson appear among the most prolific, there are others listed and I wanted to add them with what I found in yesterdays reading: Blair; Sutherland; Brander; Egg; Goff; Henshaw; Ketland; Potts; Rea; Tow and Twigg. Another note I found was that the year by the EIC heart or other (such as Tower or BO =board of ordnance) reflected a contract year rather than the year of manufacture. Possibly that explains the same year appearing on so many locks. Apparently 1779 and 1793 were two notable years. It seems in 1797 the short land pattern production was ceased for that of the cheaper India pattern. One thing I was thinking of with these jezails, and these authentic locks by these outstanding British gunsmith names. It seems in most cases, these guns are rather dismissed by the broader sector of gun collectors, and it is noted they move rather slowly and do not command high prices. It was that kind of feel I had when I acquired my example, that among collectors these would appeal only to a relatively small sector. However, these well named locks WOULD be in high demand, for uh, 'innovative' sellers 'improving' existing British gun components (not that this ever happens ). I have seen the named lock alone of these flintlocks go for six hundred or more dollars. I hope that these amazing frontier guns are safely absorbed by those of us fascinated by their history are kept intact as found in situ from the Afghan regions. Obviously these locks were reused and refurbished many times in their tribal surroundings, but keeping them in their final incarnation I would consider most important. Just some added notes and thinking as the discussion continues, and again, I thank you all so much!!!