unusual small little moro kris for id please

David R · 11th August 2019, 10:44 AM

Hiya Thomas, thanks for the essay above. It's easy for people to forget or never know just how late modern steel production appears, and how late traditional methods stayed on even in the west.

kai · 12th August 2019, 07:16 AM

Hello Jose,

Could you please show us the kris you mentioned? I don’t think we have discussed it yet? Thanks a lot!

Regards,
Kai

mross · 12th August 2019, 04:27 PM

Just to point out. In the Philippines they only used fruit to bring out the pattern in the steel. That is all that should be required to show a pattern. I'll further put my foot in it by saying anything other than the traditional method may produce results but they are not quite "right"

kai · 12th August 2019, 05:40 PM

Well, the apparently most widespread procedure seems to have been utilizing coconut water, i.e. vinegar, for cleaning and simultaneous etching. (Just to emphasize in case you subsumed it under fruits...)

However, considering period accounts and early pics with “black” blades, I’m willing to bet that warangan was known and utilized, even if of limited availability due to financial constraints and/or access to skilled artisans (with expected variability based on period, area, and possibly status).

There are enough pattern-welded Moro kris (including but not limited to twistcore) that IMVHO just scream for any enhanced contrast from advanced etching methods.

These maritime societies knew each other well and traded for centuries if not millennias!

Regards,
Kai

kai · 12th August 2019, 05:47 PM

Hello Thomas,

Thanks for your input!

In my experience steel perceived as unlaminated in antique blades usually proves to be quality steel extensively “washed” and essentially homogenized by multiple folding upon itself - as you know, this needs a very fine polish as well as a gentle etch to make these non-contrasting layers visible, possibly under magnification.

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 21st August 2019, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Jose,

Could you please show us the kris you mentioned? I don’t think we have discussed it yet? Thanks a lot!

Regards,
Kai

Sorry it took so long, but here are the pictures of the kris I was mentioning. If you need better pictures please let me know. The hilt is a restoration of a hilt in horrible condition and the pommel had been remounted several times in the past. Even the asang-asang clamp had been replaced several times. However the sea ivory pommel is original.

Notice that the blade does not even appear laminated, much less a twist core. I believe this kris is from Tawi-Tawi.

11th August 2019, 10:44 AM	#1
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,119	Hiya Thomas, thanks for the essay above. It's easy for people to forget or never know just how late modern steel production appears, and how late traditional methods stayed on even in the west.

12th August 2019, 07:16 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Jose, Could you please show us the kris you mentioned? I don’t think we have discussed it yet? Thanks a lot! Regards, Kai

12th August 2019, 04:27 PM	#3
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Just to point out. In the Philippines they only used fruit to bring out the pattern in the steel. That is all that should be required to show a pattern. I'll further put my foot in it by saying anything other than the traditional method may produce results but they are not quite "right"

12th August 2019, 05:40 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Well, the apparently most widespread procedure seems to have been utilizing coconut water, i.e. vinegar, for cleaning and simultaneous etching. (Just to emphasize in case you subsumed it under fruits...) However, considering period accounts and early pics with “black” blades, I’m willing to bet that warangan was known and utilized, even if of limited availability due to financial constraints and/or access to skilled artisans (with expected variability based on period, area, and possibly status). There are enough pattern-welded Moro kris (including but not limited to twistcore) that IMVHO just scream for any enhanced contrast from advanced etching methods. These maritime societies knew each other well and traded for centuries if not millennias! Regards, Kai

12th August 2019, 05:47 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Thomas, Thanks for your input! In my experience steel perceived as unlaminated in antique blades usually proves to be quality steel extensively “washed” and essentially homogenized by multiple folding upon itself - as you know, this needs a very fine polish as well as a gentle etch to make these non-contrasting layers visible, possibly under magnification. Regards, Kai