Origin of maker´s stamp on this yatagan

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by kronckew

As noted, lots of turkish yats have that small deep stamp that looks like there are some arabic letters inside.

And the Algerian yataghans, they don't have deep stamps?

Martin is it possible to have good photos of the handle?

I know, I'm annoying, I'm saying that Greek yataghans are Turkish and the Turkish are Algerians...

[Martin Lubojacky]

Kubur, I don´t have possibility to do another photos, now. The handle is made of ordinary horn, its mountings of brass (relatively thick plate).
"Ears": They are partially broken. It is not classical T-handle with long spiky edges. It is something between this T-handle and small flat ears (slightly widened at the end, but this is broken)

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Kubur, I don´t have possibility to do another photos, now. The handle is made of ordinary horn, its mountings of brass (relatively thick plate).
"Ears": They are partially broken. It is not classical T-handle with long spiky edges. It is something between this T-handle and small flat ears (slightly widened at the end, but this is broken)

Look at my Algerian yataghan, if you have such similar ears then you should consider serioulsy Algeria...
It would also explain the brutal beauty of the blade...

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Kubur

And the Algerian yataghans, they don't have deep stamps?

Martin is it possible to have good photos of the handle?

I know, I'm annoying, I'm saying that Greek yataghans are Turkish and the Turkish are Algerians...

Algeria was part of the Turkish sphere of influence, someone mentioned the stamp as being a 'European' indicator, Greece was restless under the Turkish thumb, and kept their Eastern orthodox roots. I disagreed that the stamp was European. I have noted the Greek yats and yat shaped shepherd's knives have those integral bolsters and the turkish empire ones usually do not. (libyan khodmi being an exception, and not a yat anyway).

Anyhow, the recurved blade sword is ancient, spearing from Spain thru the Med where Greek colonies abounded, and of course Greece and Macedon itself used the Kopis, and Alexander, (Iskander) spread it east thru Persia into Afghanistan and northern india and it is even found as far as Indonesia. And it went west again with Ptolomy into Egypt and North Africa.

Found a drawing of yat hilt types, sadly cannot find the notes that correspond, i gather the document they are from is in Russian anyway.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Thank you Kronckew, the most similar is No 27, but with longer protruberances.
Thank you also for the nice compact summarization of the expansion of this style of blade in ancient times. I meant relatively recent times (like 19. and beginning of 20. century). Are there recurved yatagan like blades in Iran and Afganistan in this recent time period ? Not my field, but since I remember well recurved blades from 19/20 century discussed here were either yatagans (from anywhere) or Indian (Pakistan ?) swords ...

[Martin Lubojacky]

Kubur, thank you ! But it is different - there is no beak on the handle of my yatagan. Enclosed please find cut-out from my previous picture.

[kronckew]

Excellent Yataghan, the Rhino horn grip sets it a cut above the rest.

So many different Yats, so few years and little money to collect them....

[sfenoid13]

This is somewhat a unique form of Yatagan but not uncommon. This type originated from the Caucasus regions, Georgia or even Black Sea region. I have seen many examples in Turkey and I actually have one very similar to this one. The handle although broken is not the typical eared shape like most yatahans but rather a big Black Sea knife /dagger handle made of horn. This type of yatagans are usually heavy with larger than normal blades. Also very well forged steel blades are usually stamped rather than being etched or written on with silver or gold. The stamps are reminiscent or Georgian kindjlas or even Quaddaras. Beautiful and functional Yatagan.

[sfenoid13]

See a similar example.(mine)

[mariusgmioc]

This is definitely not a typical blade.

Just have a look at the small double groove near the edge of the blade. Also the hollow grounding starting after about 15 cm from the very simple and atypical front bolster.

Last, but not least, even the maker's mark is very unusual and different from other known Turkish or Balkan examples.

To me, all these point to the direction that this blade was not made in any of the traditional Yatagan making centres. Neither Turkey, nor the Balkans.

My hunch would be Russian or European made blade.

The same goes for the Yatagan in posting #18. For this example, I noticed it bears the same maker's mark as the blade from the last photo of posting #6. That also is definitely not a typical Ottoman bolster.

[sfenoid13]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Kubur, thank you ! But it is different - there is no beak on the handle of my yatagan. Enclosed please find cut-out from my previous picture.

By looking at this picture again in better light it’s clear that the handle and the bolster are both later replacements , done in Turkey. Repairs are probably not too old .

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by sfenoid13

By looking at this picture again in better light it’s clear that the handle and the bolster are both later replacements , done in Turkey. Repairs are probably not too old .

Why? I'm interested to know... Could you explain? Thanks

[Martin Lubojacky]

Sfenoid13, you probably have good eyes, so just to avoid misunderstandings:
Bolster on one side was missing - and so it was completed after the acquisition (BTW by the skilled Turkish craftsmen, in this field). I am not sure if it is the one on the picture or not. In any case, it is exactly - really exactly the same like the original one (which is on another side ?).

The horn handle is old and used, it could be original.

Maybe crazy idea (?), but I would not reject the possibility of (butch) production of this big blades for the Ottoman or Turkish Army at the turn of the 19/20 centuries or during and after the 1st World War (twenties) ... But I have no information about this

[sfenoid13]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Why? I'm interested to know... Could you explain? Thanks

The handle type as it appears from the photos seems to be one with very small ears, evern it’s broken, you can see the shape is kind of a like T, very small but still kind of a T. This is the preferred type of replacement many repaired Yatagans have. I might be wrong but it’s just a gut thing after seeing so many Yatagans, original and repaired ones. The bolsters are both replacements, one may be and sneer replacement that the other, agains based on the shape andaso the fit and finish. This type of Yatagans tend to have a straight edge bolster, again based on the examples I have seen. I am not expert and these are just based on my opinions based on a couple of bad pictures of the particular Yatahan without being able to see it in person. By the way I also believe the blade is highly polished , not the original finish. It still looks nice but I’m sure you will agree it is polished more recently.