Buying at arm's length

A. G. Maisey · 6th August 2019, 05:29 AM

I used to buy a lot at auctions in the days when Lawsons in Sydney used to charge a seller 10% and a buyer nothing. I started buying at auction when I was around 15 or 16, usually left bids. However, I rarely buy at auction these days because of the buyers premium, plus the fact that it is frequently a matter of bidding against people who do not seem to have any idea of the true value of an item. But I do understand the way auctions work.

There are a number of ways that an item can appear to have bids placed on it that the auctioneer is pulling off the wall. There are left bids that I have used, the auctioneer is entitled to lodge bids to keep a lot moving and maintain the pace of the auction, ordinary general auctioneers aim for between 60 and 90 lots an hour, that means that the bidding moves quickly.

There are telephone bids, there are internet bids. There are people in the bidders present who have pre-arranged a signal with the auctioneer so that others do not know they are bidding, this sort of thing is usually used by someone who is a known expert.

Then there is the reserve price.

The cream on the cake are the auction houses who own the auctioned goods themselves, but pretend that they are auctioning a deceased estate or whatever. Basically, they're all shonks and liars, and they tell you this themselves in the "Terms" section of their catalogues.

Often a lot will finish and you don't really know if it has sold or not, so you need to check at the end of the auction.

RAMBA · 6th August 2019, 08:15 AM

I haven't experienced such a thing

I don't see the value in the auction buyers premium - can't even get half of them to sort the shipping for that fee. Add on the online bidding fee etc. and you can be up to 30% on hammer.

A. G. Maisey · 6th August 2019, 08:55 AM

You mean the 10% for sellers only?

That's history Ramba. I think it probably disappeared in about the 1970's.

Kmaddock · 6th August 2019, 11:40 AM

On a medal forum i frequent I read the following

DNW plans to hike buyers premium to 24% from 20%, starting in September. This will mean that successful bidders will now need to add 28.8% to the hammer price (due to VAT on the buyers premium)

it is getting to be a large %

Keep well

Ken

A. G. Maisey · 6th August 2019, 12:18 PM

Which I guess means less for sellers.

Kmaddock · 6th August 2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Which I guess means less for sellers.

I assume, so commission with them is 15% plus VAT!

MForde · 6th August 2019, 03:27 PM

With the advent of the big online auction platforms of recent years it makes sense that fees have gone up as the houses have found a greater audience and with this connectivity has come greater costs. Is some of it greed? Yes, of course. Personally, I dislike all the fees anyway because I'm a simple chap who likes to know the price without having to do calculations on the fly.

6th August 2019, 05:29 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I used to buy a lot at auctions in the days when Lawsons in Sydney used to charge a seller 10% and a buyer nothing. I started buying at auction when I was around 15 or 16, usually left bids. However, I rarely buy at auction these days because of the buyers premium, plus the fact that it is frequently a matter of bidding against people who do not seem to have any idea of the true value of an item. But I do understand the way auctions work. There are a number of ways that an item can appear to have bids placed on it that the auctioneer is pulling off the wall. There are left bids that I have used, the auctioneer is entitled to lodge bids to keep a lot moving and maintain the pace of the auction, ordinary general auctioneers aim for between 60 and 90 lots an hour, that means that the bidding moves quickly. There are telephone bids, there are internet bids. There are people in the bidders present who have pre-arranged a signal with the auctioneer so that others do not know they are bidding, this sort of thing is usually used by someone who is a known expert. Then there is the reserve price. The cream on the cake are the auction houses who own the auctioned goods themselves, but pretend that they are auctioning a deceased estate or whatever. Basically, they're all shonks and liars, and they tell you this themselves in the "Terms" section of their catalogues. Often a lot will finish and you don't really know if it has sold or not, so you need to check at the end of the auction.

6th August 2019, 08:15 AM	#2
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 102	I haven't experienced such a thing I don't see the value in the auction buyers premium - can't even get half of them to sort the shipping for that fee. Add on the online bidding fee etc. and you can be up to 30% on hammer.

6th August 2019, 08:55 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	You mean the 10% for sellers only? That's history Ramba. I think it probably disappeared in about the 1970's.

6th August 2019, 11:40 AM	#4
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	On a medal forum i frequent I read the following DNW plans to hike buyers premium to 24% from 20%, starting in September. This will mean that successful bidders will now need to add 28.8% to the hammer price (due to VAT on the buyers premium) it is getting to be a large % Keep well Ken

6th August 2019, 12:18 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Which I guess means less for sellers.

6th August 2019, 03:27 PM	#7
MForde Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: UK Posts: 36	With the advent of the big online auction platforms of recent years it makes sense that fees have gone up as the houses have found a greater audience and with this connectivity has come greater costs. Is some of it greed? Yes, of course. Personally, I dislike all the fees anyway because I'm a simple chap who likes to know the price without having to do calculations on the fly.