Buying at arm's length

[RAMBA]

I have benefited from poor descriptions (just recently picked up a incredibly early rare kukri that is 19th C not mid 20th thanks very much) but also watched on annoyed at what would seem to be a deliberate mistake - "ivory" when it is clearly bone or such like. Reverse that I recently inquired on a lovely UK auction tulwar with small accompanying scabbard knives - described as bone hilt knives and I asked the auction house to confirm this (looked ivory to me) and they came back oh yes ivory - i passed - could have been an interesting discussion with customs.

I have avoided the military weapons world where fake stamps and misrepresentations seem to be more common.

I think one has to know what they are buying. I'm making far better decisions now than even a couple of years ago. But some things are not visible in any image - I recently bought a kukri with scabbard from a UK antiques dealer and the scabbard had clearly been crushed at some point and was lets say flexible. This was not mentioned in any description but to me an important part of the condition not visible in any photo.

Don't really know Keris/Kris well but those small description "errors" could easily lead to someone shelling out more than they should. Seeing the term "silver metal" used.

Oh and many sellers photos are terrible and it is hard to get the full picture. I often have to ask for more and certain images.

I'm in Australia too and incoming international shipping is a real consideration in terms of price and just the hassle when auction houses don't ship or arrange shipping.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Ramba, it is possible to benefit from incorrect descriptions, just as it possible to lose. In other words, its a gamble.

Knowing what you wish to buy is a given, nobody should ever buy anything at auction unless they know the field, but as you point out, there are many things that cannot be picked up from a photo, especially a bad photo, so we need to rely upon the auctioneer's description, but these descriptions are very often so incorrect as to be ludicrous, moreover, the auction houses go out of their way to tell you that you cannot rely upon a single word they say.

Then we have Australian Customs, and I guess they are no more strict than any other Customs services anywhere in the world. Its their job, and they do it very well indeed. However, a little bit of common sense would perhaps not go astray sometimes.

Not long ago a friend attempted to send a piece of antique jewellery from here in Australia, to her daughter in USA. It was 19th century stuff, and it contained ivory. It was accepted by the post office, but on the way out of Australia it was stopped and opened by Australian Customs. They still have it, and my friend is waiting to find out if she is going to be prosecuted.

So, insofar as ivory is concerned, here in the Land of Oz we don't only have to be concerned about import of ivory, but export of ivory as well.

The lesson is that at least in this country you need to know the law in detail, and never, ever screw around with Australian Customs.

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Ramba, it is possible to benefit from incorrect descriptions, just as it possible to lose. In other words, its a gamble.

Knowing what you wish to buy is a given, nobody should ever buy anything at auction unless they know the field, but as you point out, there are many things that cannot be picked up from a photo, especially a bad photo, so we need to rely upon the auctioneer's description, but these descriptions are very often so incorrect as to be ludicrous, moreover, the auction houses go out of their way to tell you that you cannot rely upon a single word they say.

Then we have Australian Customs, and I guess they are no more strict than any other Customs services anywhere in the world. Its their job, and they do it very well indeed. However, a little bit of common sense would perhaps not go astray sometimes.

Not long ago a friend attempted to send a piece of antique jewellery from here in Australia, to her daughter in USA. It was 19th century stuff, and it contained ivory. It was accepted by the post office, but on the way out of Australia it was stopped and opened by Australian Customs. They still have it, and my friend is waiting to find out if she is going to be prosecuted.

So, insofar as ivory is concerned, here in the Land of Oz we don't only have to be concerned about import of ivory, but export of ivory as well.

The lesson is that at least in this country you need to know the law in detail, and never, ever screw around with Australian Customs.

I have no problems with our "Border Force" or their representatives opening items - but I have had a number of items treated like a bit of scrap metal. And damaged in the process.

I also have a sneaky suspicion that i have bid against an auction houses proxy on these online auction platforms. Seeing an item go for a high price only to reappear a month or two later with the same seller - buyer could have always not paid.

[A. G. Maisey]

I used to buy a lot at auctions in the days when Lawsons in Sydney used to charge a seller 10% and a buyer nothing. I started buying at auction when I was around 15 or 16, usually left bids. However, I rarely buy at auction these days because of the buyers premium, plus the fact that it is frequently a matter of bidding against people who do not seem to have any idea of the true value of an item. But I do understand the way auctions work.

There are a number of ways that an item can appear to have bids placed on it that the auctioneer is pulling off the wall. There are left bids that I have used, the auctioneer is entitled to lodge bids to keep a lot moving and maintain the pace of the auction, ordinary general auctioneers aim for between 60 and 90 lots an hour, that means that the bidding moves quickly.

There are telephone bids, there are internet bids. There are people in the bidders present who have pre-arranged a signal with the auctioneer so that others do not know they are bidding, this sort of thing is usually used by someone who is a known expert.

Then there is the reserve price.

The cream on the cake are the auction houses who own the auctioned goods themselves, but pretend that they are auctioning a deceased estate or whatever. Basically, they're all shonks and liars, and they tell you this themselves in the "Terms" section of their catalogues.

Often a lot will finish and you don't really know if it has sold or not, so you need to check at the end of the auction.

[RAMBA]

I haven't experienced such a thing

I don't see the value in the auction buyers premium - can't even get half of them to sort the shipping for that fee. Add on the online bidding fee etc. and you can be up to 30% on hammer.

[A. G. Maisey]

You mean the 10% for sellers only?

That's history Ramba. I think it probably disappeared in about the 1970's.

[Kmaddock]

On a medal forum i frequent I read the following


DNW plans to hike buyers premium to 24% from 20%, starting in September. This will mean that successful bidders will now need to add 28.8% to the hammer price (due to VAT on the buyers premium)

it is getting to be a large %

Keep well

Ken