Shipping from Italy

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kai

As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)!



Regards,
Kai

Just got an email from a customer in Germany who wants to send some blades for polishing. Says that the Deutsche Post's parcel service is now run by DHL, and apparently swords are now on their no-take list. UPS will accept weapons so long as they are not firearms (but apparently some auctioneers can use UPS to ship guns within the EU as I pointed out previously).

Now, the kickier: UPS is saying that they will transport his swords but they don't take antiques! No kidding...

Back in the 1980s when I was living in Hawaii I had two problems with UPS and their antiques policy. One, they refused to accept a rare book that I wanted to send to a buyer in England. No artwork, unique collectibles, nor anything "irreplaceable" I was told. Two, I had to battle them tooth and nail for compensation to repair a Russian samovar that they damaged in transit. Tried to deny the claim based on it being antique. I finally convinced them that it was not old, it was "second hand merchandise", not unlike the household crap that bazillions of people ship thru UPS every day. Fortunately the idiots couldn't read the Russian inscription "Sankt Peterburg 1906" stamped on it.

Now, my colleague in the Netherlands has used his shipping consolidator account to cover the charges for the restored stuff I send back to him, invariably UPS gets the pick because of their better rates. All of the stuff is antique and described as such on the declaration form. UPS hasn't uttered a peep about that! Where is the logic?

As to your comment on USPS (US Snail Mail), occasionally a counter clerk will give you the song and dance about "swords are weapons and you can't send them". Simply take the parcel to another station. There is no rule against sending either swords or antiques -- this becomes apparent if you go through the process of preparing international shipping labels on their website since each country's import rules pop up on the screen..

I always recommend to US-based colleagues that if they use US mail, it's best to open an online account and thus prepare your shipping labels and customs dec (for overseas shipments) forms on your computer. That way you just drop off your box for scanning, with labels in the pouch. The clerks don't generally read line-by-line so that removes the temptation to act as impromptu enforcer of an imaginary regulation. If you do the forms by hand, they tend to check more closely.

[Sajen]

Hello Eftihis,

I know your problem, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=z%FCrich
But like Kai and Philip I know that Czernys' shipping isn't expensive normally! There will be a reason, ask them for the reason. Hope that you will find a solution for the problem.

Regards,
Detlef

[vilhelmsson]

I purchased at Czerny's March auction. The shipping price wasn't too bad. 210 euros for 2 swords and a chainmail shirt to the US.

But there were fish and wildlife holds in Italy and the US, as well as an FDA hold, and it took about a month.

In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by vilhelmsson

In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

OK, so now we have to deal with CITES on top of shippers who fear that our little community of antiques buffs might be feeding arms to terrorists...

In the US, incoming shipments are subject to random inspections regardless of whether by post or commercial carrier. Officials with the Fish and Wildlife administration are in charge of it; they operate under the bureaucratic umbrella of the US Dept. of Agriculture, and they work hand in glove with Border Control and Customs.

You are correct in that customs declarations are flagged, via contents description and value, for these inspections. "Antiques" and any verbiage pertaining to the decorative arts will trigger an occasional look-see; it's ironic for the recipient because "antique" designation is pretty much a free pass as re: import duty exemption if the thing is over a century old.

In my experience, some dealers who regularly ship to the US might be "flagged" for regular monitoring, likewise for recipients in the US who have been tagged with a "problem" shipment issue before. It's happened with guys I know in the UK and here in the States. And some overseas dealers have led a charmed life, having shipped ivory hilted daggers to the US repeatedly over the last umpteen years til recently.

So it can be a crapshoot... But do you want to take a chance? I have two colleagues in the trade who had problems over FAUX tortoise shell veneered sword hilts, both confiscated by officials who insisted that they were the real thing. One dealer, Europe based, got his merch out of hock after several months of sending in documentation explaining why his hilt veneer was ersatz (it doesn't take a great deal of art expertise to tell the difference). The other fellow, based in the US, had a similar type of sword confiscated en route to an overseas buyer, seized before it left our shores and that case is still unresolved.

The inspections are conducted in varying degrees. Often a simple X-ray scan is enough to clear a shipment, I sometimes receive a parcel with the F&W inspection sticker or tape on the outside, but with the original sealing undisturbed. A few times, the box looked opened and resealed. No problems with undue delays resulting from this, however. I have had far greater issues with carriers erroneously routing the parcel through their hub to another state, and it falling off the tracking net for awhile. Or for postal shipments of all kinds (not just antique weapons) held up for weeks at the USPS' New York international processing center for reasons unrelated to CITES.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Philip.....Interesting first comment of yours regarding Deutschepost/DHL. I have just received a sword from Germany sent by this method and correctly described as a sword, so something does not ring true here.
Stu

Originally Posted by Philip

Just got an email from a customer in Germany who wants to send some blades for polishing. Says that the Deutsche Post's parcel service is now run by DHL, and apparently swords are now on their no-take list. UPS will accept weapons so long as they are not firearms (but apparently some auctioneers can use UPS to ship guns within the EU as I pointed out previously).

Now, the kickier: UPS is saying that they will transport his swords but they don't take antiques! No kidding...

Back in the 1980s when I was living in Hawaii I had two problems with UPS and their antiques policy. One, they refused to accept a rare book that I wanted to send to a buyer in England. No artwork, unique collectibles, nor anything "irreplaceable" I was told. Two, I had to battle them tooth and nail for compensation to repair a Russian samovar that they damaged in transit. Tried to deny the claim based on it being antique. I finally convinced them that it was not old, it was "second hand merchandise", not unlike the household crap that bazillions of people ship thru UPS every day. Fortunately the idiots couldn't read the Russian inscription "Sankt Peterburg 1906" stamped on it.

Now, my colleague in the Netherlands has used his shipping consolidator account to cover the charges for the restored stuff I send back to him, invariably UPS gets the pick because of their better rates. All of the stuff is antique and described as such on the declaration form. UPS hasn't uttered a peep about that! Where is the logic?

As to your comment on USPS (US Snail Mail), occasionally a counter clerk will give you the song and dance about "swords are weapons and you can't send them". Simply take the parcel to another station. There is no rule against sending either swords or antiques -- this becomes apparent if you go through the process of preparing international shipping labels on their website since each country's import rules pop up on the screen..

I always recommend to US-based colleagues that if they use US mail, it's best to open an online account and thus prepare your shipping labels and customs dec (for overseas shipments) forms on your computer. That way you just drop off your box for scanning, with labels in the pouch. The clerks don't generally read line-by-line so that removes the temptation to act as impromptu enforcer of an imaginary regulation. If you do the forms by hand, they tend to check more closely.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip.....Interesting first comment of yours regarding Deutschepost/DHL. I have just received a sword from Germany sent by this method and correctly described as a sword, so something does not ring true here.
Stu

Stu, I was simply passing along some info given to me by a customer residing in Germany, who was told this by a DP/DHL guy just a couple days ago when he called them about sending his swords to me in the US.

Like you, I received a sword from Germany some months ago, accepted by DHL for overseas transport and in my case, transferred to the USPS system for delivery to me in California. No problems at least in that case.

Have policies suddenly changed, like the situation with FedEx which I had earlier just as a sword was being shipped (which I alluded to in a prior post)?
Or has my customer just been given a bum steer by the organization in response to his inquiry?

At any rate, thanks for posting this, will contact him via email to advise him of your experience, maybe he can inquire further and get a resolution to his situation.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............
Stu

[RAMBA]

I have had an item shipped from Italy - all antique items need clearance papers from the Italian Government for export from Italy - this can take a couple of weeks but the auction house should arrange for a small fee.To make sure Italian heritage is not being shipped out. Unfortunately a over efficacious official opened the package and the hilt was damaged.

I have just had a aboriginal spear thrower damaged (12 inch gash) with a box cutter again by someone opening the package - box arrived with half the things sticking out.

Just had two items from Germany sent at a reasonable price by the Auction house. 75 Euro shipped international -not cheap but i got both items at a very good price.

International shipping for even small kukri or a hand shield can range wildly from the UK. Ranging from 35 pounds to 150 or more. I have had stupid quotes for a single item. Most UK auction houses will not ship international so the options for international shipped items are limited. I recently asked for a shipping quote for 4 kukri/Bhutanese dagger sized items and I go the following prices.

Our estimate to collect, pack and ship the above mentioned Lots to Australia is :

£229.75 via Parcelforce

Or

£193.00 via DHL Express

Or

£188.00 via UPS Express


Alternatively, our estimate to collect, pack and ship the above mentioned Lots to a UK address is :

£50.90 via Parcelforce 24

Or

£46.40 via Parcelforce 48

Shipping costs for antique swords and weapons is a real issue. I have to really want the piece for my collection to pay some of the shipping quotes. And hope on the day i get it at a good price.

I recently sold a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post.

Generally private sales international go much better and have less issues.

The whole international shipping issue - cost, paranoia and carelessness is a real issue for any collector or trader.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by RAMBA

I have had an item shipped from Italy - all antique items need clearance papers from the Italian Government for export from Italy - this can take a couple of weeks but the auction house should arrange for a small fee..

Yes. Even an out of print book from the 1940s! I bought a copy of Malatesta's Armi ed Armaioli d'Italia last year and in the parcel was a signed and stamped certificate approving its export from Italy.

The auction house I frequently buy from in Italy handles the export paperwork, you're right about the time frame but it's not an undue burden. I have no idea what the fee is since the dispatch portion of their invoice is all rolled into one number.

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............
Stu

I recently old a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by RAMBA

I recently old a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post.

Hi Ramba,
I agree with the comments about NZ Post.They can be rather slack at times.

As for the spear head being held by Customs, it would have been classed by our law as a double edged knife (dagger) which DOES require a permit to import here. If it was SINGLE edged then there should be no problem, so what I am saying is that a sword or knife (single edged) are generally OK without an import permit but DOUBLE edged need a Permit to Import to NZ.
Bottom line here is that if one is buying from ANY COUNTRY, then it is the BUYERS responsibility to make sure that he or she has the right paperwork and is aware of the requirements to import an item. The Law your buyer needs to be aware of is the Customs Prohibition Import Act 2017. If he is not aware of it, then he should be IMHO.
Stu

[Ian]

Having just imported my whole collection into Australia from the U.S., and encountered similar laws to those in New Zealand, I can understand the frustration of being treated capriciously by the Customs people. It really depended on who I spoke to on any given day. The local police were very bureaucratic but entirely consistent in what they told me, unlike Customs. Fortunately, I got nearly all of my pieces through the bureaucratic maze, but it took almost a year and several rounds of paperwork. When dealing with the Australian Customs (and perhaps Customs Officers most places), I would advise being very, very patient and don't get upset with them--it doesn't help and they have all the power!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............
Stu

This is exactly the case with the US Snail and judging from your experience it must be the same worldwide with any state or quasi-governmental bureaucracy. Consider the type of people working for outfits like that ...

As you say, it's the luck of the draw. With our Post Office, you can always drive a couple miles to a station in the next postal district to find a sensible employee there.

[RAMBA]

I have been trying to obtain shipping quotes for a small wooden mask coming up for sale in the USA. International shipping - I think we have a new stupid quote of the year.

A USPS store.

"Hello

Can you also quote on shipping of this item below.

USPS and I have already had a quote of $120 USD.

Thanks

*****

***

What are the dimensions, weight and value of this mask?

Thanks ****


"16 x 9 x 4.5 inches. 1.3 KG approx or less. Value $150 USD approx.

Thanks"

****

"Good morning,

Pick-up, packaging, and shipment is apprx. $735.69. Please advise is you'd like us to proceed.

Thank you!

[Rick]

I've never had any problems shipping internationally with the Post Office; UPS on the other hand...

[Philip]

Originally Posted by RAMBA

I have been trying to obtain shipping quotes for a small wooden mask coming up for sale in the USA. International shipping - I think we have a new stupid quote of the year.

A USPS store.

"Hello

Can you also quote on shipping of this item below.

USPS and I have already had a quote of $120 USD.

Hi, you have a common problem, but before i explain a possible way out, I must say that I'm a bit confused by the content of your post. You phoned a "USPS Store"? I'm sure you mean a UPS Store. The USPS (United States Postal Service aka US Snail) operates stations in each postal zone, they are not retail outlets to the extent that UPS Stores or FedEx Office locations are. Furthermore, unless you are an employee with access to secret numbers, connecting anyone at the US Snail by phone is something that requires papal intervention or an act of Congress.

OK, having said this:
1. It is an axiom that the US Snail will beat any of the commercial carriers regarding rates. That explains the differential in price mentioned in your post. In exchange for that bonus, you don't get the tracking reliability with the Snail service as the couriers offer. The exception is USPS Express Mail service, you get good performance but pay a premium for it. Still, for international shipping i find FedEx and UPS tracking to be tighter, but on the other hand FedEx no longer accepts weapons as stated in my prior posts.

2. You can get accurate rate quotes from the US Snail on their website calculator, at www.usps.com. You pay the same rate for all services whether you book online or do it over-the-counter.

3. You can likewise calculate rates for commercial carriers on their websites, www.FedEx.com or www.UPS.com. But be aware that these outfits quote different prices depending on your business status with them, and on what platform you are making your inquiry from. You'll get a certain rate as a private retail customer from the website calculator. If you have a business account and are a "volume shipper", you get a discount off the standard rate, how much depends on how much you ship per year. This amount is automatically calculated when you log in to your account before making an inquiry or purchasing service.. The WORST quotes are the ones you get on the phone or at the counter of the UPS Stores, or FedEx Offices. Those will induce real stickier shock, just as you experienced.

I guess we can chalk it up to capitalism at work. Your experience can be likened to currency exchange when traveling -- do it at the airport and you're subjecting yourself to highway robbery. Using a no-fee or low-fee credit card geared for international business travelers will save you a bundle. In other words know the market and how the players operate to choose the best, or the least painful, option for yourself. Good luck, man!

3.