Shipping from Italy

[corrado26]

As you pass the Italian and Greek customs inside the EU there should be no control of the goods in your car. They may control just yourself that's all.

I do not know Italian prescriptions concerning the sending of arms by postal services. But in case these are the same idiotic prescriptions as in Great Britain, than it is absolutely impossible to send a rapier from Italy to your homeadress.
corrado26

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by corrado26

As you pass the Italian and Greek customs inside the EU there should be no control of the goods in your car. They may control just yourself that's all.

I do not know Italian prescriptions concerning the sending of arms by postal services. But in case these are the same idiotic prescriptions as in Great Britain, than it is absolutely impossible to send a rapier from Italy to your homeadress.
corrado26

Yes it may work by car. I understand the Italian authorities require permits to export antiques outside of Italy, whether it’s within the EU or not. Apparently it takes a long time acquiring these permits. But I’m no expert and not keen to become one as I will try not to repeat the experience!

[rickystl]

Not the last auction, but the previous Czerny's auction, I purchased a detached snaphaunce gun lock (lock only). A small item weighing less than 3-lbs. (1.4kg) cost nearly $100.00 USD to ship to the USA. Shipped by Air Courier - and still took 2 months to receive it.
Imagine the shipping quote I would receive to ship a complete long gun to the States !!

If the regulations have recently changed to something more similar to that of the U.K. with "specialized" licensed shippers, I think that Czerny's may loose a large amount of potential bidders going forward. They should publish the current regulations (and any changes)for shipping outside of Italy along with each auction so the bidder can make a determination whether or not to bid.

Rick

[mariusgmioc]

This issue is not only with Czerny's.

I had to pay extortionate prices to have blades sent to the Netherlands from UK and especially from US.

For me, so far Czerny's provided quite reasonable shipping prices.

[Will M]

My last sword cost 134£ to pack and ship from the UK to Canada.
Once I bought a small lot of 3 kukri and they wanted 150£. I told them I have shipped boxes 3x the size for 100£ and they then dropped the price to 100£, still ridiculous.
One must buy at a low price, get a item worth much more to make it worthwhile.
I also experienced most shippers will not send antique swords. DHL is now on the list with UPS for not taking them. I've had UPS twice take them in and then take over a week to return to sender. Now Parcelforce is the only one I know of who will ship and that's using a inventive description without using the word "sword"

[mariusgmioc]

It seems that common sense is replaced with idiotic rules and regulations everywhere.

Like there were so many crimes produced with antique swords, daggers or guns... There are much more crimes produced with kitchen knives, yet there are no restrictions on those.

No more common sense, no more normality, but a plethora of rules and regulations to replace any trace of rational thinking.

Humanity has entered a downwards spiral to insanity!

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

It seems that common sense is replaced with idiotic rules and regulations everywhere.

Like there were so many crimes produced with antique swords, daggers or guns... There are much more crimes produced with kitchen knives, yet there are no restrictions on those.

No more common sense, no more normality, but a plethora of rules and regulations to replace any trace of rational thinking.

Humanity has entered a downwards spiral to insanity!

PS: Regarding the cost of shipping, I believe in some situations can be justified. First, the shipping company has to pick up the item from the auction house. Then it has to be carefully packed and only then can it be shipped. So it is not only the cost of shipping that we are requested to pay, but also the cost of picking up the items and the cost of packing them.

[ariel]

Ain’t no insanity. Pure psychology. They have your credit card and charge it + auction fee.

Having paid it, do you want to actually get it? Sure you do, otherwise you have lost a heap of money.

So, you grind your teeth and pay for shipping.
It is the oldest scam: in for a penny, in for a pound.

[ariel]

double

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Will M

I also experienced most shippers will not send antique swords. DHL is now on the list with UPS for not taking them. I've had UPS twice take them in and then take over a week to return to sender. Now Parcelforce is the only one I know of who will ship and that's using a inventive description without using the word "sword"

Keep in mind that commercial carriers (courier services like UPS, FedEx, DHL, et al) set their own rules as regards to shipping "weapons" (antique or otherwise) that are independent of national laws regarding ownership or sale of same. They tend not to distinguish between antique and modern, just as
the enforcers of CITES like to turn blind to the distinction between antique ivory and new tsatshkes. Furthermore, the regs can change without notice, and different standards operate in different geographic service areas.

As someone in the biz (mainly restoration), I know firsthand what a nightmare this is. To illustrate (mind you, as examples only and not intended as guidance on your current decision-making), consider this from my experience over the past few years up til now:

1. I used to use FedEx a lot for overseas and domestic (within the US) because their service and tracking is quite good and they tend to beat up parcels less than UPS or the post). However, as of this past spring they have stopped accepting all weapons of any age, even swords and bows/arrows, for overseas transport. This, breaking just as a valuable saber was being sent to me from Europe, caused a real headache on my end.

2. A friend purchased some antique spears from a source in Thailand a couple years back and UPS refused to accept it.

3. But Czernys has used UPS to ship antique firearms outside the EU for some years until UPS backed out in 2017. I bought a fine flintlock fowler from them that year and it was a 9 month journey with fits and starts, first to Belgium and from there to the UK where a freight forwarder licensed to handle firearms sent it to me for a princely sum (fortunately I was able to combine it with another gun bought in the UK and pro-rate the costs). Last year Czernys told me that UPS was "on" again, but I have not tested it simply because nothing in the way of guns offered since has tempted me to bid.

4. UPS ships antique guns within the EU at least for now. But not from Germany overseas. In March I bought a flintlock at Hermann H, they sent it by UPS to someone in a EU country who forwarded it via post with some swords. (US postal regulations have no restrictions on entry of either flintlocks or swords), The cost of both legs of the journey was a fraction of what I paid to the UK firm (see above) and my local customs broker for their services in 2017.

5. I was told that a collector in the US recently received a matchlock musket via UPS from Europe, no problem. Customs declaration stated "matchlock, antique over 100 years old".

The point of this litany is that there is no rhyme or reason to these rules which have little or nothing to do with law, they are just policies created by the giant corporations that are increasingly dominating our lives. (maybe it could be worse, we could be hoeing and scything on manorial land owned by feudal lords).

For now, I mostly use the post for shipping out of the US*, have not had a problem TO DATE, even describing swords as decorative or ornamental, antique over 100 years old. No problem receiving stuff via post either; I'm not too concerned with the occasional Fish and Wildlife inspection for CITES material since I make it clear to customers that I won't accept it on objects for restoration. *to EU and Scandinavia, Canada, Aus/NZ. Israel, Hong Kong addresses -- I avoid having to deal with other regions for obvious reasons. Japan is a special case too since of the country's very tight restrictions on swords.

[kai]

I also did experience shipping quotes from Czerny’s which seemed to be in line with other auctions. If you find a cheaper carrier, I‘d guess they would be happy to hand over your piece and even do the packing for a nominal fee.

If I understand correctly, the main issue with Italy are national legislations imposing quite a bit of rules and associated paperwork on selling and shipping hot as well as cold iron... Even traveling with a very simple pocket knife is pretty much outlawed - I’m sure this really helps with fighting the mafia...

As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)!

And, yes, ebay’s global shipping makes things even worse and is much more expensive than any regular shipping including customs fees.

Did I mention my pet peeve - currency exchange rates and fees?

Regards,
Kai

[MForde]

Originally Posted by Will M

My last sword cost 134£ to pack and ship from the UK to Canada.

Was it a larger item than usual? I've sent many swords from the UK to Canada and the US and the average cost for, say, an 1845 Pattern is £40. Parcelforce have been excellent for me and I describe the item accurately without problem. I usually use the normal Parcelforce website BUT if you book international carriages through the Parcel2Go website it often works out to be considerably cheaper - I hope that helps!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by MForde

I've sent many swords from the UK to Canada and the US and the average cost for, say, an 1845 Pattern is £40. Parcelforce have been excellent for me and I describe the item accurately without problem.

Doesn't ParcelForce have a length limit of 36 inches or 100 cm as the case may be? When I ship via post from the US to the UK, I'm subject to a 36-inch limit for International Priority Express which is a service on a comparable level to your PF. Anything longer has to go via the non-express service which takes a few days longer.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

This issue is not only with Czerny's.

I had to pay extortionate prices to have blades sent to the Netherlands from UK and especially from US.

For me, so far Czerny's provided quite reasonable shipping prices.

I, too, have had generally good experiences with Czernys' shipping. If I win something, I ask them to calculate the shipping and add it to the invoice and I pay the whole thing at once. The item arrives, usually within 2-3 weeks of my payment. Hermann Historica has also been quite reliable and quick.

Between my colleague in Haarlem and myself, we have a reasonable and pretty efficient shipping arrangement. He sends blades to me for restoration via Netherlands post, they arrive via USPS San Francisco entry point in a week to 10 days. I send to him via USPS express mail or on his courier account, likewise quick. UPS still takes antique weapons between our countries. But the post is a lot less expensive; at any rate I like to do a combo shipment with multiple items so the cost is pro-rated and a lot more economical.

[kai]

As you pass the Italian and Greek customs inside the EU there should be no control of the goods in your car. They may control just yourself that's all.

P.S.: Small inoffensive pocket knives get regularly confiscated by the Italian customs (even when exciting Italy!) - better not try the ferries from IT to GR...

[silberschatzimsee]

My entry has nothing to do with italy or czernys

I was talking about fedex being the worst shipping experience.

[kai]

Thanks for your explanation! From the other comments in this thread it seems that you got really lucky to receive it at all and the parcel not getting returned to the sender...

[Jean]

Just my personal experience with Czerny's and shipping from Italy to France:
I am regularly buying krisses and kris hilts from them, their shipping service is slow but it is partly justified because they have to go through the very bureaucratic Italian Customs regulations (export permit).
Their shipping rates are quite high but no exorbitant (45 USD for shipping a balinese kris for instance, I always insist to get the best rate) and up to now I received the items safely.
The direct consequence of the shipping problems to some destinations is that there are very few bidders as compared to other international auction houses and you can achieve excellent deals in some cases.
Regards

[Battara]

Ok so try this out: got a beja dagger at auction from Italy and paid around $240 in shipping alone! We'll see how it turns out when it comes in.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Battara

Ok so try this out: got a beja dagger at auction from Italy and paid around $240 in shipping alone! We'll see how it turns out when it comes in.

How much does a beja dagger weigh? I just got a sizeable book from the big auction house in Italy, package weight a little over 2 lb, was charged 80 euro for FedEx international economy. Got It within 2 weeks of wiring the payment and it would probably have been faster if FedEx didn’t call me from their hub in TN asking me to translate the title for them and tell them what it was about and how old it is. (My replies to them included the jibes “hey don’t youse guys read Italian?” and “whadidya expect, the Gutenberg Bible?” - luckily the rep has a sense of humor)