Possible origins of the yataghan hilt form

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for this excellent synopsis Teodor! If this summary is 'conjecture' then it is profoundly well ratiocinated as such, and presents a most reasonable overview of these weapons. Actually I was hoping you would come in on this as I have long considered your expertise in yataghans and most of the weapons in these areas as most reliable. That is fully supported by the many outstanding entries you have made in discussions on these over a decade and longer.

Well noted on the fact that the Ottoman yataghans did not have these 'eared hilts' initially. It seems these were more of a Balkan innovation, and I agree the sheep femur suggestion is an apocryphal note (I wish I could remember where I saw it).

I still wonder what pragmatic reason might explain these unusually large pommel arrangements.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I still wonder what pragmatic reason might explain these unusually large pommel arrangements.

A HEMA practitioner will probably be able to give a better explanation, but the yataghan is a weapon optimized for chopping, and not for stabbing, with the point rarely used. Therefore, no guard is necessary, but a larger pommel assists with maintaining control over the grip and drawing back the weapon after a strike.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by TVV

A HEMA practitioner will probably be able to give a better explanation, but the yataghan is a weapon optimized for chopping, and not for stabbing, with the point rarely used. Therefore, no guard is necessary, but a larger pommel assists with maintaining control over the grip and drawing back the weapon after a strike.

That makes sense, and clearly the yataghan blade with its recurve and overall character is not in the least conducive to stabbing. I was actually wondering if perhaps the aesthetic of the early daggers, which WERE for stabbing, might have been brought forward in an atavistic sense.

It does seem that certain weapons have a range of sizes which maintain the same hilt form such as the flyssa. The yataghan itself seems to have evolved from smaller short sword sizes into sometimes full size swords (though the term itself is said to refer to a 'knife').

The notion of a larger hilt to support the hand in chopping or slashing cuts does make sense, and sometimes the nature of certain hilts defy reasonable purpose in the actual dynamics of the sword in use.

Marius, I agree that coincidence or convergent development is always possible, but often the strong similarities compel further look into possible connections. I have often felt that iconographic sources such as depictions in friezes or sculptures for example, might influence cultures many centuries or more later to produce weapons ancestrally representative of more ancient times. In some cases in Africa we can see similarity to certain images in Egyptian art which are remarkably like more recent African forms.

That was why I mentioned the 'eared' dagger form from depictions in ancient Hittite pantheon representations.

As Teodor has noted, these are ideas that are admittedly speculation and conjecture, but worthy of note for discussion.