Unknown Tulwar Markings

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think Ulfbrecht on the European forum Hand and a Halfsword (post 10) explains it very good.
More decoration cost more money and these things were very costly even in those day's. Blade marks don't have to be perfectly symmetrical, variations will occur depending on how worn the punch was and if the punch and the hammer were perfectly vertical when the marks were placed.

Jens, thank you for bringing Ulfbrecht's very pertinent and well described comments on the markings 'punch' circumstances, most well placed in this discussion.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I think 'Katar arms' have lost interest in the subject - so why did he ask the question?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think 'Katar arms' have lost interest in the subject - so why did he ask the question?

Unfortunately not that unusual when guys ask something then just disappear
At least we have an opportunity to have some discussion and often learn some things as we spend the usual hours researching. Most dont realize this stuff doesnt just come off the top of our heads (wish it did!), so we have to dig up the notes and references to answer the questions.
Hopefully Mr. Katar Arms was satisfied with the results added here.

[Katar_arms]

Hi guys,

My apologies in my disappearance! I was on holiday for a couple of weeks and have just got back to reorganising my life! Thank you all so much for your valuable input.

Firstly, Sorry for the image quality and ordering. I haven't had posted at all on the forum so I'm still getting used to the layout and systems used to upload files.

In the case of the Bichaq; the dating from Jens translation is 1809 but the stamp doesn't indicate a specific bladesmith and is more just a general stamp you would expect to see from an ottoman, in this case greek blade? Surely the type of marking indicate some significance? There are many similar yet different types of markings on yataghans and bichaqs but do they have any relation to anything apart from "Ottoman markings ", perhaps even religious?

The Tulwars are interesting in the sense that they have Indian ricassos but european blades, were the blades forged then shipped to India or were ingots of steel shipped where they would then be forged in India? I've heard that due to European blades being cheaper but still high quality they were bulk traded into India. The tulwar which had the sickle markings is also a pattern welded blade. Were europeans able to forge high quality pattern welded blades (I've had people state that shear steel was more common place in european blades)? The sickle markings are also, as Jen mentions in the example he posted, higher on one side than the other. Is there any reason for the asymmetry of the stamps? Surely if you want to convey quality of a blade (or even counterfeiting) you would make them as true to an example as possible? I will retake some images for clarity and showing the asymmetry of the stamps. Is there any reference sources that you could suggest which markings indicate region, manufacturer, date? Also, why is it that Indians had steels such as wootz yet they insisted that european metal was better than the standard metals?

Thank you so much for the information you have shared and effort you have put into researching! Apologise again for the lack of communication, holidays tend to keep you away from the internet! I will be reposting some images for clarity.

[Katar_arms]

Also it seems I have to wait in order for posts to be moderated.