A Brazilian (Navy) Dirk for comments

fernando · 15th July 2019, 10:33 PM

Not such an antique weapon, but still interesting ... for the price.
The blade and scabbard with the Brazilian Empire (1822) Coat of of Arms.
The ivory grip severely damaged; obviously not result of combat but most certainly some smart ... used it as chisel, by the way it was cracked an stuck into the ferrule which, together with the little guard, make a beautiful duo. I have managed to release it back to its virtual position, using miraculous WD40. The pommel cap is missing; nothing to do about it, specially being the decorative atypical type to screw around the grip top, not the tang.
However the local silver (and not only) smith says he could 'implant' some ivory in the major missing part.
What do you guys say i should do; leave it as it is or take it to the beauty parlor ?

.

Will M · 16th July 2019, 02:24 PM

I would clean up the blade but preserve the contrast in the etched areas so the designs are more easily seen. For the grip you can display the one side that looks fine or do the repair since it shows the internal tang.
Either way it's a nice piece.

fernando · 16th July 2019, 07:47 PM

Thank you so much, Will.
I will ponder on both solutions.

Sajen · 16th July 2019, 09:57 PM

Hello Fernando,

I would let it restore and give it back it's former glory.

Regards,
Detlef

M ELEY · 17th July 2019, 07:10 AM

Normally, I'm not for restoring, but it wouldn't take too much to bring this fine midshipman's dress dirk back to form. I'd clean up the blade and use epoxy to stabilize the grip. Unless I could find an authentic pommel from the period, I'd leave it be. Nice piece, 'Nando!'

fernando · 17th July 2019, 08:08 PM

Well, i think it compensated having it going to have some embellishment applied; two patches of ivory and a pommel cap in golden silver.
The blade was polished once more, providing some more visibility of the superficial 'Solingen type' engraving. Only that now we can discern some lettering, which i can't decipher, anyhow; perhaps the ship's name or the Navy school. If ever anyone here knows what it says ...

.

Sajen · 17th July 2019, 08:13 PM

Well done Fernando!

Looks much better!

M ELEY · 17th July 2019, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Well done Fernando!

Looks much better!

Agreed! And now stabilized so the hilt won't crack more...

fernando · 17th July 2019, 09:52 PM

Now the grip is also 'epoxyed' to the tang. And the whole thing has cost 10-12 times less than a example in fine condition

.

bvieira · 7th August 2019, 04:23 PM

Great item Fernando!

kronckew · 7th August 2019, 04:57 PM

Love it!

fernando · 7th August 2019, 05:04 PM

Thank you Bruno; Obrigado Wayne

.
I have been trying in vain to contact Brazilian resources connected to their Navy, in order to decode that inscription; but it seems they are not that amenable. I would give my kingdom to know what those initials (?) mean.
If this were a later piece, EG could well mean Escola de Guerra, as they now call their Navy schools. But i can't get a trace to their Empire period Navy institutions.

kronckew · 7th August 2019, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... i can't get a trace to their Empire period Navy institutions.

Since they were then part of the Portuguese Empire, could your own navy be of any help?

bvieira · 7th August 2019, 06:54 PM

Hello,

I talk to a brazilian friend his opinion:

"(E)scola.(G)uerra Real"

translate in english to "ROYAL WAR SHOOL"

Regards,

BV

fernando · 7th August 2019, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvieira

... I talk to a brazilian friend his opinion:
"(E)scola.(G)uerra Real"
translate in english to "ROYAL WAR SHOOL"...

Thank you for your help Bruno. However i fail to make out all the four letters for the word REAL. Definitely the letter before the last "L" is not a "A"; even assuming a first letter (R) would be completely faded.
Thanks again.

.

fernando · 7th August 2019, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Since they were then part of the Portuguese Empire, could your own navy be of any help?

Different Empires, Wayne. Brazil constituted his own Empire after independence from Portugal 1822-1889. You may derust your TRANSLATING MOTOR
... Notwithstanding some Portuguese Navy historian may be able to crack the riddle.

kronckew · 7th August 2019, 08:19 PM

I suspect the dirk is pre-1822 tho

Hope your local historian can help.

Google is absolutely useless...

15th July 2019, 10:33 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A Brazilian (Navy) Dirk for comments Not such an antique weapon, but still interesting ... for the price. The blade and scabbard with the Brazilian Empire (1822) Coat of of Arms. The ivory grip severely damaged; obviously not result of combat but most certainly some smart ... used it as chisel, by the way it was cracked an stuck into the ferrule which, together with the little guard, make a beautiful duo. I have managed to release it back to its virtual position, using miraculous WD40. The pommel cap is missing; nothing to do about it, specially being the decorative atypical type to screw around the grip top, not the tang. However the local silver (and not only) smith says he could 'implant' some ivory in the major missing part. What do you guys say i should do; leave it as it is or take it to the beauty parlor ? . Attached Images

17th July 2019, 08:08 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well, i think it compensated having it going to have some embellishment applied; two patches of ivory and a pommel cap in golden silver. The blade was polished once more, providing some more visibility of the superficial 'Solingen type' engraving. Only that now we can discern some lettering, which i can't decipher, anyhow; perhaps the ship's name or the Navy school. If ever anyone here knows what it says ... . Attached Images

16th July 2019, 02:24 PM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 405	I would clean up the blade but preserve the contrast in the etched areas so the designs are more easily seen. For the grip you can display the one side that looks fine or do the repair since it shows the internal tang. Either way it's a nice piece.

16th July 2019, 07:47 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much, Will. I will ponder on both solutions.

16th July 2019, 09:57 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,415	Hello Fernando, I would let it restore and give it back it's former glory. Regards, Detlef

17th July 2019, 07:10 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Normally, I'm not for restoring, but it wouldn't take too much to bring this fine midshipman's dress dirk back to form. I'd clean up the blade and use epoxy to stabilize the grip. Unless I could find an authentic pommel from the period, I'd leave it be. Nice piece, 'Nando!'

17th July 2019, 08:13 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,415	Well done Fernando! Looks much better!

17th July 2019, 09:52 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Now the grip is also 'epoxyed' to the tang. And the whole thing has cost 10-12 times less than a example in fine condition .

7th August 2019, 04:23 PM	#10
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Great item Fernando!

7th August 2019, 04:57 PM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	Love it!

7th August 2019, 05:04 PM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Bruno; Obrigado Wayne . I have been trying in vain to contact Brazilian resources connected to their Navy, in order to decode that inscription; but it seems they are not that amenable. I would give my kingdom to know what those initials (?) mean. If this were a later piece, EG could well mean Escola de Guerra, as they now call their Navy schools. But i can't get a trace to their Empire period Navy institutions.

7th August 2019, 06:54 PM	#14
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Hello, I talk to a brazilian friend his opinion: "(E)scola.(G)uerra Real" translate in english to "ROYAL WAR SHOOL" Regards, BV

7th August 2019, 08:19 PM	#17
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	I suspect the dirk is pre-1822 tho Hope your local historian can help. Google is absolutely useless...