Unknown Tulwar Markings

[Jens Nordlunde]

Attached is an example of an Indian blade with copied European stamps.
Notice how uneven the stamps have been made, on one side the letters start 20 cm from the quillon block, and on the other side only 12 cm from the block.
Hilt made of copper with remnants of its original gilding. Mughal 17th century.

[Jens Nordlunde]

One can wonder why the stamps sometimes are in such a bad state, as they are supposed to mean 'European quality'.
Maybe the stamps themselves were worn, or the one who put the stamps on the blades did not care very much. Another question is, why the two stamps with the letters, are placed differently on either side of the blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

One can wonder why the stamps sometimes are in such a bad state, as they are supposed to mean 'European quality'.
Maybe the stamps themselves were worn, or the one who put the stamps on the blades did not care very much. Another question is, why the two stamps with the letters, are placed differently on either side of the blade.

If I may speculate, the notion of European 'quality' was likely much in the manner of many cultures who regard 'foreign' items and forms as 'exotic' or 'impessive'. It is well known that the Mughals were intrigued by European herbals and other such references, and ironically symbols and devices such as sigils and the like had filtered into European occult from Islamic sources.

Then much of this cross diffused back into the culture through the Mughals.
European blades of vintage were regarded as of well venerated quality, and I think possibly less than crisp or well placed stamped would suggest such character.

On the other hand, stamp dies did tend to deteriorate with use of course, and the resulting marks reflected this. This is seen in all manner of stamps in Europe as well as many others, and probably why makers changed and had auxiliary forms. In North Africa the dies for the well known crescent moons degenerated over years, to where the marks became almost indiscernible.

In antiques, it is of course well known that furnishings are often refinished with 'distressing' and discoloration or patina to give it 'character'.
A handsome Mughal sword with 'venerable' European blade would be highly desirable and auspicious, so Indian makers may have employed these markings accordingly to allude to such character.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I think Ulfbrecht on the European forum Hand and a Halfsword (post 10) explains it very good.
More decoration cost more money and these things were very costly even in those day's. Blade marks don't have to be perfectly symmetrical, variations will occur depending on how worn the punch was and if the punch and the hammer were perfectly vertical when the marks were placed.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think Ulfbrecht on the European forum Hand and a Halfsword (post 10) explains it very good.
More decoration cost more money and these things were very costly even in those day's. Blade marks don't have to be perfectly symmetrical, variations will occur depending on how worn the punch was and if the punch and the hammer were perfectly vertical when the marks were placed.

Jens, thank you for bringing Ulfbrecht's very pertinent and well described comments on the markings 'punch' circumstances, most well placed in this discussion.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I think 'Katar arms' have lost interest in the subject - so why did he ask the question?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think 'Katar arms' have lost interest in the subject - so why did he ask the question?

Unfortunately not that unusual when guys ask something then just disappear
At least we have an opportunity to have some discussion and often learn some things as we spend the usual hours researching. Most dont realize this stuff doesnt just come off the top of our heads (wish it did!), so we have to dig up the notes and references to answer the questions.
Hopefully Mr. Katar Arms was satisfied with the results added here.