Unknown Tulwar Markings

Jim McDougall · 11th July 2019, 07:32 PM

It would appear these tulwars are assemblages of components from old Indian armouries which may have been put together some time ago. The blades are Indian (having the distinct blunted edge near the hilt) and the markings are somewhat impressively executed versions of well known Styrian blade marks.
There is a great deal of consternation and debate over the meaning of the FRINGIA word and its variations, however it is generally found on sword blades through East Europe.
It would appear that the 'sickle marks' (dentated arcs) and 'cogwheel' arrangements with what appears to be perhaps 'ANDREA' (Ferara) may reflect same usage on Solingen blades.

These kinds of blades were well known in the trade entrepots in India, and the marks were widely copied, and impressively done often (as seen here) to assert 'quality' as Jens has noted.

It is interesting to see the shield disc, or what appears to be one, on the tulwar pommel. Similar radiating designs are well known inside the pommel disc, but the dome is atypical, and incongruent with the securing nut.

I would agree with the latter 19th c. on the bichaq, but can only presume the inscribed panel on the blade is in the manner of many Ottoman blades including yataghans of various forms.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th July 2019, 02:02 PM

Attached is an example of an Indian blade with copied European stamps.
Notice how uneven the stamps have been made, on one side the letters start 20 cm from the quillon block, and on the other side only 12 cm from the block.
Hilt made of copper with remnants of its original gilding. Mughal 17th century.

Jens Nordlunde · 14th July 2019, 04:42 PM

One can wonder why the stamps sometimes are in such a bad state, as they are supposed to mean 'European quality'.
Maybe the stamps themselves were worn, or the one who put the stamps on the blades did not care very much. Another question is, why the two stamps with the letters, are placed differently on either side of the blade.

Jim McDougall · 14th July 2019, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

One can wonder why the stamps sometimes are in such a bad state, as they are supposed to mean 'European quality'.
Maybe the stamps themselves were worn, or the one who put the stamps on the blades did not care very much. Another question is, why the two stamps with the letters, are placed differently on either side of the blade.

If I may speculate, the notion of European 'quality' was likely much in the manner of many cultures who regard 'foreign' items and forms as 'exotic' or 'impessive'. It is well known that the Mughals were intrigued by European herbals and other such references, and ironically symbols and devices such as sigils and the like had filtered into European occult from Islamic sources.

Then much of this cross diffused back into the culture through the Mughals.
European blades of vintage were regarded as of well venerated quality, and I think possibly less than crisp or well placed stamped would suggest such character.

On the other hand, stamp dies did tend to deteriorate with use of course, and the resulting marks reflected this. This is seen in all manner of stamps in Europe as well as many others, and probably why makers changed and had auxiliary forms. In North Africa the dies for the well known crescent moons degenerated over years, to where the marks became almost indiscernible.

In antiques, it is of course well known that furnishings are often refinished with 'distressing' and discoloration or patina to give it 'character'.
A handsome Mughal sword with 'venerable' European blade would be highly desirable and auspicious, so Indian makers may have employed these markings accordingly to allude to such character.

Jens Nordlunde · 18th July 2019, 05:29 PM

I think Ulfbrecht on the European forum Hand and a Halfsword (post 10) explains it very good.
More decoration cost more money and these things were very costly even in those day's. Blade marks don't have to be perfectly symmetrical, variations will occur depending on how worn the punch was and if the punch and the hammer were perfectly vertical when the marks were placed.

Jim McDougall · 18th July 2019, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think Ulfbrecht on the European forum Hand and a Halfsword (post 10) explains it very good.
More decoration cost more money and these things were very costly even in those day's. Blade marks don't have to be perfectly symmetrical, variations will occur depending on how worn the punch was and if the punch and the hammer were perfectly vertical when the marks were placed.

Jens, thank you for bringing Ulfbrecht's very pertinent and well described comments on the markings 'punch' circumstances, most well placed in this discussion.

Jens Nordlunde · 20th July 2019, 10:41 PM

I think 'Katar arms' have lost interest in the subject - so why did he ask the question?

11th July 2019, 07:32 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,742	It would appear these tulwars are assemblages of components from old Indian armouries which may have been put together some time ago. The blades are Indian (having the distinct blunted edge near the hilt) and the markings are somewhat impressively executed versions of well known Styrian blade marks. There is a great deal of consternation and debate over the meaning of the FRINGIA word and its variations, however it is generally found on sword blades through East Europe. It would appear that the 'sickle marks' (dentated arcs) and 'cogwheel' arrangements with what appears to be perhaps 'ANDREA' (Ferara) may reflect same usage on Solingen blades. These kinds of blades were well known in the trade entrepots in India, and the marks were widely copied, and impressively done often (as seen here) to assert 'quality' as Jens has noted. It is interesting to see the shield disc, or what appears to be one, on the tulwar pommel. Similar radiating designs are well known inside the pommel disc, but the dome is atypical, and incongruent with the securing nut. I would agree with the latter 19th c. on the bichaq, but can only presume the inscribed panel on the blade is in the manner of many Ottoman blades including yataghans of various forms. Attached Images

13th July 2019, 02:02 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Attached is an example of an Indian blade with copied European stamps. Notice how uneven the stamps have been made, on one side the letters start 20 cm from the quillon block, and on the other side only 12 cm from the block. Hilt made of copper with remnants of its original gilding. Mughal 17th century. Attached Images

14th July 2019, 04:42 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	One can wonder why the stamps sometimes are in such a bad state, as they are supposed to mean 'European quality'. Maybe the stamps themselves were worn, or the one who put the stamps on the blades did not care very much. Another question is, why the two stamps with the letters, are placed differently on either side of the blade.

18th July 2019, 05:29 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I think Ulfbrecht on the European forum Hand and a Halfsword (post 10) explains it very good. More decoration cost more money and these things were very costly even in those day's. Blade marks don't have to be perfectly symmetrical, variations will occur depending on how worn the punch was and if the punch and the hammer were perfectly vertical when the marks were placed.

20th July 2019, 10:41 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I think 'Katar arms' have lost interest in the subject - so why did he ask the question?