Curious finds in Taipei

yuanzhumin · 25th April 2006, 01:44 PM

Thanks Rick for the tip about the six pointed star mark. If I wanted to show off my ignorance on the subject, I wouldn't have done better.

In fact, the subject is far away from the Taiwanese austronesian tribes.

Thanks also to RSWORD for the comments on the second sword. The other ones are coming. As there is only six pictures attachments possible, I'll have to go post after post.

The two next :
-1: an unknown sword that is a copy of medieval swords.
-2: probably a japanese sword in the western style. That's all I know. The Japanese colonized Taiwan from 1895 to 1945. There is a still quite few of these old japanese things that are surfacing in the island from time to time.

Mark · 25th April 2006, 08:31 PM

The repro is of "Tizona," one of the swords of the Spanish hero El Cid.

The second one is a Japanese army kyu-gunto (see http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/military.htm)

Quite a variety of swords this shop has!

yuanzhumin · 26th April 2006, 12:01 AM

Yes, quite a variety, Mark !

I was surprised by this discovery, and I thought that it would be nice and funny to share it with all of you through a kind of "virtual exhibit" on the forum.

This morning (in Taipei), I selected the two other japanese swords, that are like the first one I displayed. They are most probably military, dating from the end of 19 th and the beginning of 20th century.

In the next two days, I will display the two chinese swords (republic time), one dayak mandau (with a beautiful handle!) and then the rest - one complete japanese armour (very impressive), two japanese bows, and two unknown identical short swords).

Thanks to all of you for your comments.

yuanzhumin · 26th April 2006, 12:08 AM

Checking back quickly on the pics I just displayed, I have a doubt : would these be all pictures of the same sword ? In the precipitation of taking the photos in the shop, I may have pictured twice the same sword. If it is the case, sorry.

yuanzhumin · 26th April 2006, 03:08 AM

Hello

I’m grateful to you, Mark, for the precious link you gave about the Japanese military swords. I looked at it, and It stimulated my curiosity.

So, the first showed Japanese sword is an army kiu-gunto. The text say that this sword is of the colonial type - from Taiwan when I look at the drawings – and that the blades were sometimes hand forged. Is this one hand forged ?

The second one on the other post seems to be also a kiu-gunto. It looks like more the navy style to me (am I wrong ?), with a leather covered scabbard and brass fixtures. But the blade appears significantly different from the previous one. How come ? Is it hand forged ?

Is there anything else special to learn on these type of swords ?

Thanks.

yuanzhumin · 26th April 2006, 03:34 AM

Mark, I just checked at the bottom of the page on the Japanese military swords website the link to the fake,repros and similar swords. It seems to me now that I was wrong in my previous conclusions and that the second sword is not Japanese but a « Chinese military parade sabers that are somewhat similar to Japanese parade sabers or to Japanese kyu-gunto and are sometimes confused with them ».
Here is another excerpt from the site : “The Chinese sabers have a different design on the backstrap and a different flower emblem on the side panel of the backstrap, “ It seems to be the case here.
And also : ‘The (chinese) scabbards have two suspension rings, Japanese sabers have only one suspension ring. “ That’s exactly the case of the second sword.
So I guess the second sword is a Chinese parade sword, and that would explain the big difference in the shape of the blades (and also the quality of it). Could anybody confirm ?

Mark · 26th April 2006, 04:15 PM

I was thinking the army kyu-gunto was a Taiwan occupation one, too, but if you look that the mon on the handle, it is not the same kind of flower as that on the Taiwan occupation sword shown on Rich's site, and looks instead identical to the general army crysanthemum design.

Its impossible to tell from photos whether the blade is hand-forged or machine made. The hamon looks pretty regular and sharp-edged to me, so my guess is machine made.

Really all I know about these is what I have learned from Rich's site.

25th April 2006, 01:44 PM	#1
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Thanks Rick for the tip about the six pointed star mark. If I wanted to show off my ignorance on the subject, I wouldn't have done better. In fact, the subject is far away from the Taiwanese austronesian tribes. Thanks also to RSWORD for the comments on the second sword. The other ones are coming. As there is only six pictures attachments possible, I'll have to go post after post. The two next : -1: an unknown sword that is a copy of medieval swords. -2: probably a japanese sword in the western style. That's all I know. The Japanese colonized Taiwan from 1895 to 1945. There is a still quite few of these old japanese things that are surfacing in the island from time to time. Attached Images

26th April 2006, 12:01 AM	#3
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Yes, quite a variety, Mark ! I was surprised by this discovery, and I thought that it would be nice and funny to share it with all of you through a kind of "virtual exhibit" on the forum. This morning (in Taipei), I selected the two other japanese swords, that are like the first one I displayed. They are most probably military, dating from the end of 19 th and the beginning of 20th century. In the next two days, I will display the two chinese swords (republic time), one dayak mandau (with a beautiful handle!) and then the rest - one complete japanese armour (very impressive), two japanese bows, and two unknown identical short swords). Thanks to all of you for your comments. Attached Images

25th April 2006, 08:31 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	The repro is of "Tizona," one of the swords of the Spanish hero El Cid. The second one is a Japanese army kyu-gunto (see http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/military.htm) Quite a variety of swords this shop has!

26th April 2006, 12:08 AM	#4
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Checking back quickly on the pics I just displayed, I have a doubt : would these be all pictures of the same sword ? In the precipitation of taking the photos in the shop, I may have pictured twice the same sword. If it is the case, sorry.

26th April 2006, 03:08 AM	#5
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Hello I’m grateful to you, Mark, for the precious link you gave about the Japanese military swords. I looked at it, and It stimulated my curiosity. So, the first showed Japanese sword is an army kiu-gunto. The text say that this sword is of the colonial type - from Taiwan when I look at the drawings – and that the blades were sometimes hand forged. Is this one hand forged ? The second one on the other post seems to be also a kiu-gunto. It looks like more the navy style to me (am I wrong ?), with a leather covered scabbard and brass fixtures. But the blade appears significantly different from the previous one. How come ? Is it hand forged ? Is there anything else special to learn on these type of swords ? Thanks.

26th April 2006, 03:34 AM	#6
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	Mark, I just checked at the bottom of the page on the Japanese military swords website the link to the fake,repros and similar swords. It seems to me now that I was wrong in my previous conclusions and that the second sword is not Japanese but a « Chinese military parade sabers that are somewhat similar to Japanese parade sabers or to Japanese kyu-gunto and are sometimes confused with them ». Here is another excerpt from the site : “The Chinese sabers have a different design on the backstrap and a different flower emblem on the side panel of the backstrap, “ It seems to be the case here. And also : ‘The (chinese) scabbards have two suspension rings, Japanese sabers have only one suspension ring. “ That’s exactly the case of the second sword. So I guess the second sword is a Chinese parade sword, and that would explain the big difference in the shape of the blades (and also the quality of it). Could anybody confirm ?

26th April 2006, 04:15 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I was thinking the army kyu-gunto was a Taiwan occupation one, too, but if you look that the mon on the handle, it is not the same kind of flower as that on the Taiwan occupation sword shown on Rich's site, and looks instead identical to the general army crysanthemum design. Its impossible to tell from photos whether the blade is hand-forged or machine made. The hamon looks pretty regular and sharp-edged to me, so my guess is machine made. Really all I know about these is what I have learned from Rich's site.