Old Kaskara

ariel · 29th June 2019, 01:22 PM

Thanks to all.
Imitation of European markings on “Oriental” blades is a bane of sword collectors. Some of them are indistinguishable from the originals and some were used so widely that the very attribution of a blade becomes problematic. For now, and as per Ed’s reluctant opinion I will assume that it is a genuine trade Solingen blade of mid-19 century. If unequivocal proof to the contrary becomes available, I shall be content with the designation of it as a local copy. I did find Kull’s blades with markings inlayed with some copper alloy, so it is good. Tentatively, this kaskara might have been created before “Mahdi rebellion”, might have even taken part in it and might have even beheaded Charlton Heston:-)

The idea of a “ doughnut” pommel may well be applicable to my example.

I looked long and hard for “goat skin twine”, found a source for hemp twine. The recent legalization of recreational marijuana in Michigan takes enormous weight off my shoulders: I am unlikely to be arrested for ordering controlled substance on the Internet:-) I shall contribute lanolin from the drug store and add dirt and sweat as per doctors orders.

Again, thanks to David and Ed!

Iain · 29th June 2019, 02:23 PM

Yes, its a genuine Kull, the copper fills I think were done locally as I've seen the same blade in takouba mounts without the fills but usually kaskara have them.

ariel · 29th June 2019, 02:30 PM

Thanks Iain!

Edster · 29th June 2019, 05:28 PM

Iain, thanks for the confirmation.

Ariel, here's a link to goatskin cord. The 0.5mm may be a good match, but they have others.
http://www.rings-things.com/Products...-Leather-Cord/

Without hands-on experience, I would think that maker's marks, at least deep ones, were made after the blade has been finish forged, but before hardening quench and temper. That way the material is still rather soft and will accept a die with a strong whack. Marks made after hardening would be more like engraving, scratching or acid etch. It seems very unlikely that local smiths would have a Solingen-style die of known design in their tool kits.

Regards,
Ed

ariel · 29th June 2019, 06:22 PM

Again, tons of thanks!

This Forum is blessed with people knowing things that 99.9999% of general population have no idea about and who are willing to share their knowledge.

By far the best decision of my collector’s life was to join it. People here cannot even imagine how much I have learned from them.

Jens Nordlunde · 29th June 2019, 06:23 PM

Ed, you are right, in this case as in many other cases, but many does not recognice this.

Jim McDougall · 30th June 2019, 08:24 AM

As Iain has noted, this does appear to be a European blade, and the mark is convincingly like those used by Samuel Kull, 1847-60 Solingen, placed at the forte as in European practice ("European Makers of Edged Weapons and Their Marks" Staffan Kinman, 2015, p.48).

However these markings do seem to be locally applied, but what is curious is just 'where' in the North African range this might have been done. We know that these copper filled markings are imitating early European marks of the cross and orb and the standing lion(?) (perhaps the 'perillo' mark from Spain 17th c. which in fact was supposed to be a 'little dog' from a quip by Cervantes noting it). .
However the instances of these marks are from takouba (as Iain noted) and from the blades of two Tuareg chiefs from the Kaocen Revolt (1916-17). These chiefs were from the Air mountains in Niger.

Apparently Henri Lhote (1954) considered the inlaying of copper or brass marks was proof of African application, suggesting he was well aware of the practice.
Briggs (1965) cited his reference, but corrected it by noting that this was of course a European method as well. In fact, copper or brass filled marks (latten) were prevalent throughout Europe in 16th-17th c. .

Briggs (p.81) notes further that with the blade of one of these chiefs swords (with copper filled lion and cross and orb) when viewed under magnification, there were radiating cracks indicating the mark had been stamped without being sufficiently heated, so clearly not at the time of production.

While these blades may well have come into the Sahara in the period of 1860s it is curious why these spurious markings were added to them it would appear so much later (1916). As these were on takouba, it is more curious what these same type markings are doing on kaskara blades.

It seems the Hausa, with their blacksmithing skills, may have been a likely conduit with their positioning from as far west as Sudanese regions, and well into Nigerian regions. While not sure if they might have been the ones doing the markings, perhaps blades so marked from whatever point of entry might have carried the influence into both takouba and kaskara blades through them.
Part of my thinking on that is that curiously the Briggs article, which is on Tuareg sword blades, includes thuluth covered Sudanese kaskara blades, which he identifies as 'Hausa'.

While the marking at the forte on this blade has distinct resemblance to the known Kull markings, it is notably different in the forelegs of the 'fly' being filled in rather than distinguishable. In Ed's study he notes that the Sudanese were apparently intrigued by the 'fly' as a marking symbolizing a warriors agility, so it does seem possible they learned to counterfeit this mark as well.
Whatever the case, it does seem to be as noted an early 20th c. blade, if not earlier, and clearly refurbished numerous times since then, as customary with these swords.

Edster · 1st July 2019, 12:59 AM

Jim, well argued response, but I'd like to make a counterpoint.

In a 2006 post JeffD showed a kaskara with the three Kull marks, two of which were copper filled. Images attached below.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Cronau

The fly is of the distinctive Kull design and distinctively struck. Who would doubt that this is not Kull factory struck? Ariel's mark is the same if not identical, but dirty. The cross & orb and standing cat on both may or may not be factory. (Was all three defining marks always/mostly/often placed on Kull export blades?)

We agree that someone somewhere at some time filled the orb-cross & cats with copper, but not the fly. I would accept somewhere in the Trans-central Africa trade network in the mid to late 19th C.

Best regards,
Ed

30th June 2019, 08:24 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	As Iain has noted, this does appear to be a European blade, and the mark is convincingly like those used by Samuel Kull, 1847-60 Solingen, placed at the forte as in European practice ("European Makers of Edged Weapons and Their Marks" Staffan Kinman, 2015, p.48). However these markings do seem to be locally applied, but what is curious is just 'where' in the North African range this might have been done. We know that these copper filled markings are imitating early European marks of the cross and orb and the standing lion(?) (perhaps the 'perillo' mark from Spain 17th c. which in fact was supposed to be a 'little dog' from a quip by Cervantes noting it). . However the instances of these marks are from takouba (as Iain noted) and from the blades of two Tuareg chiefs from the Kaocen Revolt (1916-17). These chiefs were from the Air mountains in Niger. Apparently Henri Lhote (1954) considered the inlaying of copper or brass marks was proof of African application, suggesting he was well aware of the practice. Briggs (1965) cited his reference, but corrected it by noting that this was of course a European method as well. In fact, copper or brass filled marks (latten) were prevalent throughout Europe in 16th-17th c. . Briggs (p.81) notes further that with the blade of one of these chiefs swords (with copper filled lion and cross and orb) when viewed under magnification, there were radiating cracks indicating the mark had been stamped without being sufficiently heated, so clearly not at the time of production. While these blades may well have come into the Sahara in the period of 1860s it is curious why these spurious markings were added to them it would appear so much later (1916). As these were on takouba, it is more curious what these same type markings are doing on kaskara blades. It seems the Hausa, with their blacksmithing skills, may have been a likely conduit with their positioning from as far west as Sudanese regions, and well into Nigerian regions. While not sure if they might have been the ones doing the markings, perhaps blades so marked from whatever point of entry might have carried the influence into both takouba and kaskara blades through them. Part of my thinking on that is that curiously the Briggs article, which is on Tuareg sword blades, includes thuluth covered Sudanese kaskara blades, which he identifies as 'Hausa'. While the marking at the forte on this blade has distinct resemblance to the known Kull markings, it is notably different in the forelegs of the 'fly' being filled in rather than distinguishable. In Ed's study he notes that the Sudanese were apparently intrigued by the 'fly' as a marking symbolizing a warriors agility, so it does seem possible they learned to counterfeit this mark as well. Whatever the case, it does seem to be as noted an early 20th c. blade, if not earlier, and clearly refurbished numerous times since then, as customary with these swords. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 30th June 2019 at 07:02 PM.

1st July 2019, 12:59 AM	#8
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	Jim, well argued response, but I'd like to make a counterpoint. In a 2006 post JeffD showed a kaskara with the three Kull marks, two of which were copper filled. Images attached below. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Cronau The fly is of the distinctive Kull design and distinctively struck. Who would doubt that this is not Kull factory struck? Ariel's mark is the same if not identical, but dirty. The cross & orb and standing cat on both may or may not be factory. (Was all three defining marks always/mostly/often placed on Kull export blades?) We agree that someone somewhere at some time filled the orb-cross & cats with copper, but not the fly. I would accept somewhere in the Trans-central Africa trade network in the mid to late 19th C. Best regards, Ed Attached Images

29th June 2019, 01:22 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks to all. Imitation of European markings on “Oriental” blades is a bane of sword collectors. Some of them are indistinguishable from the originals and some were used so widely that the very attribution of a blade becomes problematic. For now, and as per Ed’s reluctant opinion I will assume that it is a genuine trade Solingen blade of mid-19 century. If unequivocal proof to the contrary becomes available, I shall be content with the designation of it as a local copy. I did find Kull’s blades with markings inlayed with some copper alloy, so it is good. Tentatively, this kaskara might have been created before “Mahdi rebellion”, might have even taken part in it and might have even beheaded Charlton Heston:-) The idea of a “ doughnut” pommel may well be applicable to my example. I looked long and hard for “goat skin twine”, found a source for hemp twine. The recent legalization of recreational marijuana in Michigan takes enormous weight off my shoulders: I am unlikely to be arrested for ordering controlled substance on the Internet:-) I shall contribute lanolin from the drug store and add dirt and sweat as per doctors orders. Again, thanks to David and Ed!

29th June 2019, 02:23 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Yes, its a genuine Kull, the copper fills I think were done locally as I've seen the same blade in takouba mounts without the fills but usually kaskara have them.

29th June 2019, 02:30 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks Iain!

29th June 2019, 05:28 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	Iain, thanks for the confirmation. Ariel, here's a link to goatskin cord. The 0.5mm may be a good match, but they have others. http://www.rings-things.com/Products...-Leather-Cord/ Without hands-on experience, I would think that maker's marks, at least deep ones, were made after the blade has been finish forged, but before hardening quench and temper. That way the material is still rather soft and will accept a die with a strong whack. Marks made after hardening would be more like engraving, scratching or acid etch. It seems very unlikely that local smiths would have a Solingen-style die of known design in their tool kits. Regards, Ed

29th June 2019, 06:22 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Again, tons of thanks! This Forum is blessed with people knowing things that 99.9999% of general population have no idea about and who are willing to share their knowledge. By far the best decision of my collector’s life was to join it. People here cannot even imagine how much I have learned from them.

29th June 2019, 06:23 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ed, you are right, in this case as in many other cases, but many does not recognice this.