Indonesian pedang for identification

Sajen · 20th June 2019, 06:18 PM

Hello Alan,

Like you I've owned and handled several so called Co Jang, all I've sold, only the one I've posted is still in my collection since it's the best one I've had in my possession. Like you said, they come in many different qualities. Not one of them was similar to the sword in question.
Like I write in my first post of this thread: "All comments are very welcome!" and for sure I taken your thoughts to consideration but like Kai and Gustav I think that this blade originate not from Sumatra but from Sulawesi. Yes, the general shape is similar to a Co Jang blade but like Ian write in post #2 it also resemble to a Bangkung from the Moros and I am sure that we will find other blade shapes which will look similar.
And I agree with your statement: " This style of bifurcated hilt is usually associated with Sumatra, lots of stylistic variations, but in other places, including Sulawesi it is somewhere between rare and non-existent." This was the main reason for this thread and so I am curious to see pictures from the example Kai has in his possession.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 20th June 2019, 10:11 PM

Thank you for your comment Detlef.

I think I have already made it clear that I am not proposing any point of origin, nor any name for this pedang. My initial comment was a thought for consideration, no more.

My thought has been considered, and seemingly, dismissed. I have absolutely no problem with this at all. None. I have very little interest in this sort of thing --- well, I used to have, but for a long time now my interest has been pretty narrowly focused.

Blades like this but with different as well as similar hilts I have bought from sources within Indonesia, and from one or two sources outside Indonesia where the seller could provide information on origin. During the 1980's blades like this were being made by smiths in a village outside of Boyolali in Jawa Tengah.

Hilts like this I have had on old Javanese blades, and I have seen at least one similar hilt that was carved in Solo within the last 30 years.

My only problem in respect of this particular pedang, as well as a great number of other unremarkable tools & weapons that get posted for identification, is that the sources that are used as reference material are so very few, and so very unreliable.

There are simply not adequate sources of reliable information available to permit any reasonable person to form a supportable opinion.

Most opinions on place of origin and name of perhaps the bulk of these everyday objects should be qualified. Most people fail to do so.

20th June 2019, 06:18 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Hello Alan, Like you I've owned and handled several so called Co Jang, all I've sold, only the one I've posted is still in my collection since it's the best one I've had in my possession. Like you said, they come in many different qualities. Not one of them was similar to the sword in question. Like I write in my first post of this thread: "All comments are very welcome!" and for sure I taken your thoughts to consideration but like Kai and Gustav I think that this blade originate not from Sumatra but from Sulawesi. Yes, the general shape is similar to a Co Jang blade but like Ian write in post #2 it also resemble to a Bangkung from the Moros and I am sure that we will find other blade shapes which will look similar. And I agree with your statement: " This style of bifurcated hilt is usually associated with Sumatra, lots of stylistic variations, but in other places, including Sulawesi it is somewhere between rare and non-existent." This was the main reason for this thread and so I am curious to see pictures from the example Kai has in his possession. Regards, Detlef

20th June 2019, 10:11 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thank you for your comment Detlef. I think I have already made it clear that I am not proposing any point of origin, nor any name for this pedang. My initial comment was a thought for consideration, no more. My thought has been considered, and seemingly, dismissed. I have absolutely no problem with this at all. None. I have very little interest in this sort of thing --- well, I used to have, but for a long time now my interest has been pretty narrowly focused. Blades like this but with different as well as similar hilts I have bought from sources within Indonesia, and from one or two sources outside Indonesia where the seller could provide information on origin. During the 1980's blades like this were being made by smiths in a village outside of Boyolali in Jawa Tengah. Hilts like this I have had on old Javanese blades, and I have seen at least one similar hilt that was carved in Solo within the last 30 years. My only problem in respect of this particular pedang, as well as a great number of other unremarkable tools & weapons that get posted for identification, is that the sources that are used as reference material are so very few, and so very unreliable. There are simply not adequate sources of reliable information available to permit any reasonable person to form a supportable opinion. Most opinions on place of origin and name of perhaps the bulk of these everyday objects should be qualified. Most people fail to do so.