Yet another wotsit.

[Victrix]

Dealers may say a lot of things. The grip looks like an 18th or 19thC infantry man’s hanger. The guard looks a bit outsize but maybe just my imagination? When encountering items of brass it’s always good to consider the possibility of naval use as brass does not corrode nor rot in salt water.

[Jim McDougall]

I think there is a compelling similarity with these alternating quillons on the guard to certain Chinese sword hilts on dadao (mostly ring pommel types) and some of the 'butterfly' knives (paired).

These types of edged weapons were used by Chinese martial artists and often security forces who worked as protective guards in various capacities and sometimes with foreign firms.

The distinct similarity to British infantry hangers is well noted in those of mid to latter 18th c. (typically regarded as M1742 and M1751 though they were in use long before these dates).
* Thomas Craven was a maker c.1800+ and the acceptance marks put the example shown about then, revealing how long these patterns remained in use in some cases.

I am unsure whether this hilt is authentically from one of these swords or copied (cast) from one, but the hilt style is as described but again, with the European pointed escutcheon in the crossguard center.

It seems possible that certain Chinese factions as mentioned did work with foreign colonial occupiers, though of course by the time of the Boxer Rebellion the weapons of foreign 'devils' were scorned. I have seen various cases of cross influence, and even British M1796 disc hilts with Chinese markings and inscriptions.

[kronckew]

Interesting, I'd initially thought the guard was Chinese looking. The Brass grip looks cast to fit the guard but could have been copied as it doesn't look cut off from something else and it balances the blade nicely. The unmarked thrusting only type blade remains a bit unknown. would like to have seen the scabbard, would have answered a few questions. Thanks,Jim & y'all.

[Jim McDougall]

Thoroughly interested in this weapon, I looked further:
Apparantly in South China, where a great deal of foreign influences converged in the regions of Canton, there were forms of Kung Fu which included use of paired edged weapons, usually knives termed 'hudie shuang dao'. These were commonly termed butterfly knives as they were typically encased in pairs but not to be confused with the Filipino folding knife (balisong).

One reference notes that some had a 'long narrow blade that emphasized stabbing" . It was noted that some of these were termed 'red boat' knives having to do with 'Red Boat' (red colored junk) opera troupes who performed as a cover while practicing as subversive revolutionaries covertly, and these kinds of weapons. The illustrated painting is not specifically shown as representing these persons, but to illustrate the variations of paired edged weapons known used by such martial artists.

In any case, during the First Opium War (1839-42) many conflicts were situated in Canton regions. Here we can see the potential for European influences, as seen as mentioned in other cases as the 'butterfly' knife sets with knuckleguard. It would not seem far fetched that these Chinese martial arts weapons might adopt other hilt features (as cast ribbed grips) as well.

While we cannot say specifically that this is one of these Chinese knives, the purpose of this information on possible Chinese association is for the benefit of evaluation by those interested here.

[kronckew]

My Qing Dynasty 'hudie shuang dao' - Pirate swords. mid-18c before they started the double sword bit and they started getting wider and with off centre points like the 'modern' ones.

These are NOT huidi dao 'butterfly' knives as they are singletons instead of a matched pair with half hilts that fit the same scabbard. These have full oval x-section checkered grips and wider brass guards.

The top one is a thrusting version, the slightly longer bottom is a much thicker and heavier cutting one. they are unlike the wotsit. I think the guard shape is coincidental parallel evolution, still think it's a European custom item made to a specific requirement.

I̶ ̶s̶u̶s̶p̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶'̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶s̶h̶i̶p̶'̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶l̶a̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶v̶i̶c̶t̶i̶m̶'̶s̶ ̶d̶e̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶v̶e̶.̶ ̶:̶(̶

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I7lK2wOuZs

I knew I'd heard 'red boats' somewhere. I seem to recall visiting one in Hong Kong...memory fading tho. Red is the colour of good luck and happiness.

Cantonese 'red boats' were Showboata carrying Chinese Opera actors around the areas rivers, bit like the showboats on the Mississippi. They used Kung Fu in their styalised stories.

I made & added the chinese butterfly sword knot because I thought it fit.

[Jim McDougall]

Finally found this image of a Chinese (presumably martial artist) man with two of these long weapons used in pair.

[kronckew]

had to rename that to add the .jpg extension.

They look like a chinese sword breaker (Gan/Garn) posted elsewhere here.

A overly lengthy Chinese demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykZHMsCIfU


your painting from above and that breaker: