Keris Solo for comment

jagabuwana · 16th June 2019, 07:09 AM

Alan - what about this gonjo makes it unacceptable to be classified as Tuban?

From having seen the photo and before having read further, Tuban was my guess. My reasoning was the rounded sirah cicak and the buntut urang tapering to a point.

A. G. Maisey · 16th June 2019, 08:28 AM

If this gonjo had what we call nguceng mati form, with the tail coming back to a distinct point, I would be prepared to accept the slightly pointed sirah cecak as Tuban, its not really rounded enough for Tuban, but it would pass with a push. However, that gonjo tail has a slight curve and the end is more or less squared off. This is not acceptable for Tuban.

There's another thing too, I cannot really see the blade cross section, I'm not sure if it is ovoid enough for Tuban, in a couple of pics it looks like it could be slightly raised down the mid-line of the wilah, not really an ada-ada, but not rounded either.

Jean · 16th June 2019, 10:10 AM

I wonder whether this gonjo wulung is original, look at the mating with the blade and the neat & oversized hole around the pesi with a rustic wedge?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 16th June 2019, 10:50 AM

The gonjo might not be original, but this is an old blade, and gonjos on old blades are often not original, the gonjo itself is old, the erosion seems to be more or less similar to the wilah erosion, the wedge is quite OK, the hole in the pesi could be a whisker smaller, but if the gonjo was removed during maintenance, something that is not at all unusual with older blades, natural erosion would account for the larger than necessary hole.

I can see nothing in this keris to cause me to question it, I'd accept as is, even if the gonjo was not the gonjo put onto it on day one --- and there is no way of knowing that with any certainty in the case of this keris.

Jean · 16th June 2019, 09:06 PM

Just for reference and comparison, I attach the pics of the sorsoran of 3 old & big blades similar to David's blade (dapur Tilam Upih) with original gonjos I think.
Regards

Athanase · 20th June 2019, 01:24 AM

Hello,
I received today a big Kriss with a strong blade of 45cm long.
I hesitate also between the north of Java or East Java.
The dapur is similar but with greneng.
I'll be posting photos this weekend.

David Gallas · 20th June 2019, 08:01 AM

I'm learning a lot of this topic, also the majapahit blade topic. My interest about the keris is more cultural and historical....

Let me share some info, but it's only past over verbally. It cannot be fully proven.

The keris should be a gift from the keraton of Surakarta, somewhere in the second part of the 19th century. Given to an east Javanese dokter who was also Wedono. (Wedono is dialect for face)

I also thought that the blade was Tuban, just because of the feeling of the blade, i don't have that detailed knowledge about the keris.

The story goes that the blade was re-shaped in Solo by a Madurese empu, what gives it the east Javanese feeling. That's why lot's of east Javanese keris have mid Javanese infuence. Solo and Jogya originate from east Java and have lots of Madurese craftmans and is seen as original east Javanese.
You also see that on the east Javanese Wedono keris.

I didn't know about the gonjo, nor of the real origine of the blade before beeing reshaped...

16th June 2019, 09:06 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Just for reference and comparison, I attach the pics of the sorsoran of 3 old & big blades similar to David's blade (dapur Tilam Upih) with original gonjos I think. Regards Attached Images Last edited by Jean; 17th June 2019 at 09:46 AM.

16th June 2019, 07:09 AM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 292	Alan - what about this gonjo makes it unacceptable to be classified as Tuban? From having seen the photo and before having read further, Tuban was my guess. My reasoning was the rounded sirah cicak and the buntut urang tapering to a point.

16th June 2019, 08:28 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	If this gonjo had what we call nguceng mati form, with the tail coming back to a distinct point, I would be prepared to accept the slightly pointed sirah cecak as Tuban, its not really rounded enough for Tuban, but it would pass with a push. However, that gonjo tail has a slight curve and the end is more or less squared off. This is not acceptable for Tuban. There's another thing too, I cannot really see the blade cross section, I'm not sure if it is ovoid enough for Tuban, in a couple of pics it looks like it could be slightly raised down the mid-line of the wilah, not really an ada-ada, but not rounded either.

16th June 2019, 10:10 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I wonder whether this gonjo wulung is original, look at the mating with the blade and the neat & oversized hole around the pesi with a rustic wedge? Regards

16th June 2019, 10:50 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	The gonjo might not be original, but this is an old blade, and gonjos on old blades are often not original, the gonjo itself is old, the erosion seems to be more or less similar to the wilah erosion, the wedge is quite OK, the hole in the pesi could be a whisker smaller, but if the gonjo was removed during maintenance, something that is not at all unusual with older blades, natural erosion would account for the larger than necessary hole. I can see nothing in this keris to cause me to question it, I'd accept as is, even if the gonjo was not the gonjo put onto it on day one --- and there is no way of knowing that with any certainty in the case of this keris.

20th June 2019, 01:24 AM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 428	Hello, I received today a big Kriss with a strong blade of 45cm long. I hesitate also between the north of Java or East Java. The dapur is similar but with greneng. I'll be posting photos this weekend.

20th June 2019, 08:01 AM	#7
David Gallas Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 24	I'm learning a lot of this topic, also the majapahit blade topic. My interest about the keris is more cultural and historical.... Let me share some info, but it's only past over verbally. It cannot be fully proven. The keris should be a gift from the keraton of Surakarta, somewhere in the second part of the 19th century. Given to an east Javanese dokter who was also Wedono. (Wedono is dialect for face) I also thought that the blade was Tuban, just because of the feeling of the blade, i don't have that detailed knowledge about the keris. The story goes that the blade was re-shaped in Solo by a Madurese empu, what gives it the east Javanese feeling. That's why lot's of east Javanese keris have mid Javanese infuence. Solo and Jogya originate from east Java and have lots of Madurese craftmans and is seen as original east Javanese. You also see that on the east Javanese Wedono keris. I didn't know about the gonjo, nor of the real origine of the blade before beeing reshaped...