Unknown sword

[panday]

Originally Posted by Ian

Pinoy:

Lovely color to the ivory -- rich golden, with a slight reddish hue. Could this be dugong ivory? There is an example in Cato that he calls dugong, and some time ago we had a discussion about dugong ivory on the old forum.

Ian.

Ian, here's another one.
I had mine polished, but didn't change a thing.
I thought ivory as it gets older they turn to light golden/yellow, like the aged pool cue balls, this ones are just dark orange. Tea stained?

[Ian]

The depth of color seems to vary a lot, but in general I think ivory gets darker with age and handling. I have several old ivory-hilted dha from Burma and Thailand that have ivory that is quite dark, almost as though it has been smoked.

I think that body oils (grease) get transferred during handling and carrying and this is mainly responsible for the color change. Add a little dirt (as seen in the fine cracks) and we end up with the familiar look of old ivory.

Dugong (sea cow, manatee) ivory has a distinct reddish hue to it. I've now seen several illustrated examples and I believe that I own a kris with dugong ivory (at least it was sold to me as dugong ivory by a Filipino dealer in Manila whom I have dealt with for many years, and it matches the color of the dugong hilt in Cato).

Ian.


Here are pictures of that hilt.

[panday]

Dugong (sea cow, manatee) ivory has a distinct reddish hue to it. I've now seen several illustrated examples and I believe that I own a kris with dugong ivory (at least it was sold to me as dugong ivory by a Filipino dealer in Manila whom I have dealt with for many years, and it matches the color of the dugong hilt in Cato).



Stellar sea cow/manatee/dugong raw material.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Ian

The depth of color seems to vary a lot, but in general I think ivory gets darker with age and handling. I have several old ivory-hilted dha from Burma and Thailand that have ivory that is quite dark, almost as though it has been smoked.

I think that body oils (grease) get transferred during handling and carrying and this is mainly responsible for the color change. Add a little dirt (as seen in the fine cracks) and we end up with the familiar look of old ivory.

Dugong (sea cow, manatee) ivory has a distinct reddish hue to it. I've now seen several illustrated examples and I believe that I own a kris with dugong ivory (at least it was sold to me as dugong ivory by a Filipino dealer in Manila whom I have dealt with for many years, and it matches the color of the dugong hilt in Cato).

Ian.

I'm seeing cross hatching on the left bottom corner in picture two which brings up a question ; do all ivory types (Marine ivory included) show this distinctive pattern ?

Panday , that Sea Cow ivory looks very porous in cross section .
Interesting .....

Rick

[kino]

Punal, good catch on that Kris. Congrats.

I believe the Seacow Ivory are the ribs that's why it's so porous. I have seen them for sale at Knife shows.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by kino

Punal, good catch on that Kris. Congrats.

I believe the Seacow Ivory are the ribs that's why it's so porous. I have seen them for sale at Knife shows.

Thank you Kino .
So this would then be fossil material ?

[kino]

Rick, It is indeed fossil material. The seller informed me that he obtains
some from Alaska and the Siberian tundra. They're beautiful polished.

[ibeam]

Rick,

I believe they are called ossic.

[kino]

Ibeam, Oosik is below the ribs on the body, for humans. Only males have oosik's. Do you know what I mean. Living up here in the PNW, I see a few numbers for sale at curio shops. LOL

[panday]

Originally Posted by ibeam

Rick,

I believe they are called ossic.

Hi there Ibeam,
long time no talk! Oosik are walrus' male genital organ and they are also perfect as knive scales, handles, and others, it can also be carved and polished to sheen like ivory.

Example of Walrus oosik baculum and a Damascus fighting bowie knife with oosik handle.

[panday]

I believe the Seacow Ivory are the ribs that's why it's so porous. I have seen them for sale at Knife shows.[/QUOTE]


Kino,
You are absolutely right, this are sea cow ribs and most were fossilized, the ones that I have, are not(Stellar peices). I have contacted several sellers and asked them if there was really a sea cow ivory and all of them gave the same answer! sea cow bone, is ivory, sea cow tusk?

Question, the sea cow ivory on Cato's book, is that a bone or tusk?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by panday

Question, the sea cow ivory on Cato's book, is that a bone or tusk?

Don't know panday. See Figure 42, p. 69 of Cato. Looks like a solid piece to me.

Ian.

[panday]

Another example of a very raw material.
Sea cow/Dugong/Manatee Skeleton (stellar's collection)

[Ian]

Rick:

I think this may be an artefact of how I manipulated the image in Photoshop. Sometimes using the "sharpen" tool can create distortion and bring out patterns that aren't really there. The cross hatching is not visible in the original image.

The concentric rings and central vein suggest that this example is a tusk (tooth) rather than a rib.

Ian.

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm seeing cross hatching on the left bottom corner in picture two which brings up a question ; do all ivory types (Marine ivory included) show this distinctive pattern ?

Panday , that Sea Cow ivory looks very porous in cross section .
Interesting .....

Rick