Enigma

Jim McDougall · 29th April 2019, 11:23 PM

Kubur, while you are a seasoned collector and arms scholar, I know you initiated this thread concerning the Passau wolf as a kind of exercise, so if I may elaborate a bit further for the benefit of readers on this topic.

I have attached the panel of exemplars of variations of the 'running wolf' which was used both in Passau as well as more extensively in Solingen. It is believed its use began in Passau as a knifemakers mark in about 14th c. This plate of examples is from Wagner, "Cut and Thrust Weapons" Prague, 1967, p.109).
It appears that the plate originates in 'Zeitschrift fur Historiche Waffenkunde" Vol. III, p.312.

As I noted earlier, I do not personally believe these date classifications signify any reliable chronology of development, but more examples drawn from blades of these date periods.

In Wagner (p.107) he notes that Solingen maker Iohannes Wundes (1560-1620) used the Passau wolf on consignments for Passau merchants supplying the Passau mercenaries of Archduke Leopold V.
Passau was a key center for the assembly of mercenary soldiers and as such, was also a center for armourers who furnished weaponry and war goods for these forces. It appears that Solingen makers began to use the mark more broadly as it became associated with one of the standard 'quality' markings.

TVV · 29th April 2019, 11:27 PM

Could it be a case of an old blade mounted with a newly made jineta hilt in the 19th century? Or is there anything about the blade that allows us to confirm it as a copy as well, because based on the pictures alone I would have a very hard time determining whether this is an authentic old blade or not.

Jim McDougall · 29th April 2019, 11:42 PM

I agree with Teodor, it is really hard to determine the vintage of a blade from photos, the flash tends to brighten even age darkened spots in metal. The character of the stamped figure seems to well correspond to examples as seen in this panel of 'wolf' images.
Certainly the blade, as with many over generations, may have bee remounted, but the hilt and overall view of the sword often gives very helpful context for consideration.

Kubur · 30th April 2019, 08:07 PM

I agree with both of you
here is the animal, imho one of the best 19th c copy of a jineta far superior of the Toledo acid etched blades...

Jim McDougall · 30th April 2019, 09:57 PM

That REALLY is attractive OK!!! I have always thought these jineta type swords incredibly attractive, especially having been swept up in the 'El Cid' thing when a young guy (yeah I know these were not in step with the period, but then what did I know!) .
The authentic examples of these are incredibly rare of course, and the modern 'souveniers' are , well, just that.
But in Victorian times they were inclined to produce some pretty solid examples recalling the authentic pieces. Actually these became authentic antiques in their own right, as seen with your example.
The use of an authentic early blade is an especially nice touch.

That is a 'hanger' that would make any wall proud

29th April 2019, 11:23 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	Kubur, while you are a seasoned collector and arms scholar, I know you initiated this thread concerning the Passau wolf as a kind of exercise, so if I may elaborate a bit further for the benefit of readers on this topic. I have attached the panel of exemplars of variations of the 'running wolf' which was used both in Passau as well as more extensively in Solingen. It is believed its use began in Passau as a knifemakers mark in about 14th c. This plate of examples is from Wagner, "Cut and Thrust Weapons" Prague, 1967, p.109). It appears that the plate originates in 'Zeitschrift fur Historiche Waffenkunde" Vol. III, p.312. As I noted earlier, I do not personally believe these date classifications signify any reliable chronology of development, but more examples drawn from blades of these date periods. In Wagner (p.107) he notes that Solingen maker Iohannes Wundes (1560-1620) used the Passau wolf on consignments for Passau merchants supplying the Passau mercenaries of Archduke Leopold V. Passau was a key center for the assembly of mercenary soldiers and as such, was also a center for armourers who furnished weaponry and war goods for these forces. It appears that Solingen makers began to use the mark more broadly as it became associated with one of the standard 'quality' markings. Attached Images

30th April 2019, 08:07 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I agree with both of you here is the animal, imho one of the best 19th c copy of a jineta far superior of the Toledo acid etched blades... Attached Images

29th April 2019, 11:27 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Could it be a case of an old blade mounted with a newly made jineta hilt in the 19th century? Or is there anything about the blade that allows us to confirm it as a copy as well, because based on the pictures alone I would have a very hard time determining whether this is an authentic old blade or not.

29th April 2019, 11:42 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	I agree with Teodor, it is really hard to determine the vintage of a blade from photos, the flash tends to brighten even age darkened spots in metal. The character of the stamped figure seems to well correspond to examples as seen in this panel of 'wolf' images. Certainly the blade, as with many over generations, may have bee remounted, but the hilt and overall view of the sword often gives very helpful context for consideration.

30th April 2019, 09:57 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	That REALLY is attractive OK!!! I have always thought these jineta type swords incredibly attractive, especially having been swept up in the 'El Cid' thing when a young guy (yeah I know these were not in step with the period, but then what did I know!) . The authentic examples of these are incredibly rare of course, and the modern 'souveniers' are , well, just that. But in Victorian times they were inclined to produce some pretty solid examples recalling the authentic pieces. Actually these became authentic antiques in their own right, as seen with your example. The use of an authentic early blade is an especially nice touch. That is a 'hanger' that would make any wall proud