For comment #5

kai · 28th April 2019, 12:11 AM

Hello Alan,

Quote:

I think this example of dress is probably 1900 - 1940. It might be a little bit earlier, it is certainly no later.

Yes, there are many examples of old, sometimes very old, carved wrongkos with animal and floral motifs floating around. I myself have several.

Which age would you estimate for the oldest examples you've seen? I believe I've seen some dating to the 19th century but none which convinced me of being older.

Quote:

I have never regarded this hilt as exceptional. it is nice, competent carving, I have seen many that are similar. If I remember I'll have a close look at it when I get home and see if I can make further comment.

I checked some references and a naturalistic face surrounded by some stylised motifs does show up, indeed. Often the carving seems more floral while the source of yours seems less obvious; epaulettes also seem to be a common motif with these hilts despite their apparent civilian nature.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 28th April 2019, 01:52 AM

I cannot give age estimates Kai, that would be pure guessing, no more, no less. I have a few of these wrongkos, all are in my opinion definitely pre-WWII, but I'm not prepared to go any further than that. All I can do is look at something, handle it, and get a general impression of age from condition and wear. That is, in my opinion, simply not good enough. Ten years worth of stressed use might easily equate to a couple of hundred years wrapped in cloth in a cupboard in a store-room.

Yes, people who do have high levels of skill, either inherited or taught, do tend to be employed by others, but in farming communities and simple rural communities the same does not apply, at least this is so in Jawa and Bali.

People regard this type of carving as enjoyment and a way to fill time and demonstrate personal skill. To understand the way that people in these types of communities see their world you really need to have spent time living with them. Quite simply, they do not see the world, nor do they think in a similar way to people who live in urban communities.

28th April 2019, 01:52 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,067	I cannot give age estimates Kai, that would be pure guessing, no more, no less. I have a few of these wrongkos, all are in my opinion definitely pre-WWII, but I'm not prepared to go any further than that. All I can do is look at something, handle it, and get a general impression of age from condition and wear. That is, in my opinion, simply not good enough. Ten years worth of stressed use might easily equate to a couple of hundred years wrapped in cloth in a cupboard in a store-room. Yes, people who do have high levels of skill, either inherited or taught, do tend to be employed by others, but in farming communities and simple rural communities the same does not apply, at least this is so in Jawa and Bali. People regard this type of carving as enjoyment and a way to fill time and demonstrate personal skill. To understand the way that people in these types of communities see their world you really need to have spent time living with them. Quite simply, they do not see the world, nor do they think in a similar way to people who live in urban communities.