Very Nice Nimcha

ArmsAndAntiques · 25th April 2019, 03:29 AM

HI Charles,

I've long followed this wonderful sword and it is certainly in the right home now.

I've also kept this reference in mind for years and this is the right place to include it as a specific example of 17th C. North Africa/Ottoman workmanship. The attached images from a German private collection show a sword with similar enamel work, with a different style grip, but with the classic Mediterranean trade blade, often attributed to Genoa (though I think Mediterranean is the best we can do at this point without specific evidence of an Italian city production).

I would certainly think this sword has little to do with the East African style of sword, lso referred to as a nimcha, and even less with the swords originating from the Southern Arabian peninsula, a (interestingly that is the terminology along the west coast of India as well for a sword indicating the trade routes the word, if not the form traveled on, though there are Hyderabadi hilt forms that are similar to the East African, or rather Indian Ocean style of hilt).

However, the Bukharan enamel connection is definetely a possibility as I've seen this blue and green enamel work on other Ottoman daggers, including on sold by us some years back over gold, see below:

http://armsandantiques.com/beautiful...r-dagger-id851

And also another found in the Wallace Collection. I think the enamelling is most likely early 18th C. Ottoman workmanship, likely on order depending on where in the Empire, or associated states, it went.

ArmsAndAntiques · 25th April 2019, 03:33 AM

One final point on dating is that the form of the scabbard and the style of mounting hearkens most closely to the early Ottoman period mounted swords, often with karabela shaped hilts, with the central medallion and band.

In addition, the specific style of decoration with a repetitive decorative pattern, along the scabbard fittings that is similar to Ottoman 17th C. karabelas, and is also found on East European swords of the period as well, which were themselves likely influenced by Ottoman workmanship.

One does not find the central scabbard fitting of this style, on 18th C. or later Ottoman sword generally.

ArmsAndAntiques · 25th April 2019, 03:37 AM

And finally in reference to an 18th C.dating, the gold yataghan given by the Bey of Tunis to Danish King Frederik V, illustrated in Niels Arthur Andersen's book on "Gold and Coral" provides a further reference for this scabbard style and mounting, though that sword was presented in 1753.

Now in the Danish National Museum (EM60a,EM60b, and EMb61)

Jim McDougall · 25th April 2019, 03:48 AM

A&A, we crossed posts.....well noted on the Ottoman enameling and styling, and the distinct influence of some of these decorative techniques in Europe, with their fascination with 'Oriental' exotica. There are distinct similarities in these hilts with certain N.Italian hilts of 16th c. with the quillon systems as well as the ring guards seen on the 'nimchas' long held to be 'Zanzibar' examples.

Edster · 25th April 2019, 04:16 PM

I wonder if a translation of the Arabic script on the bands might provide useful information.

fernando · 25th April 2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

I wonder if a translation of the Arabic script on the bands might provide useful information.

And the stamp on the blade ... remember, Charles ?

CharlesS · 25th April 2019, 05:22 PM

Fernando,

Here are a couple of pics, but they are very difficult to make out, though the stamp on one side is much clearer than the other.

Let me know if you are able to decipher anything from it.

fernando · 26th April 2019, 10:38 AM

Charles, my idea was more to show the stamp to members within this type of (Islamic) swords than attempting my self to identify it.
Marks (stamps) are a vital asset; they often open the doors to crack enigmas.
While inscriptions, for as important as they are for the item's record, may fall into 'generic' religious statements, smith (or arsenal) marks may drive you into the actual origin of the piece.
... Just saying

.

midelburgo · 26th April 2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Fernando,

Here are a couple of pics, but they are very difficult to make out, though the stamp on one side is much clearer than the other.

Let me know if you are able to decipher anything from it.

It could be a Venetian arsenal winged lion?

What remembers me of this another ¿Nimcha? What do you make out of it?

Jim McDougall · 26th April 2019, 05:42 PM

The deeply stamped circular cartouche seems a convention which runs typical in Algerian context sabres (which is how Briggs. 1965, terms the probable nimshas in his collection then). In accord with the drawings in his article, "European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers", JAAS, Vol. V, #2, 1965, p.37-92......on p.78, he describes two of these 'sabres' as having these as having circular marks containing Arabic characters in illegible combination, but while in this same blade location.....only on one side.

Though he suggests the blades, both with identical three fuller configuration, are either Italian or German and of 16th or 17th c. As one of the blades has ANDREA FERARA, this profoundly suggests Solingen, and likely end of 17th into 18thc. Briggs notes that these markings were probably stamped later, but prior to 'damascening' on the blade.
This further suggests some type of arsenal or acceptance (?) kind of stamp which was apparently placed on these blades (in this blade location) as the blades were received.

In Charles' example (OP) the flared tip blade in my opinion in unlikely to be German, quite likely Italian (as these are comparable to some storta blades I believe) and seems earlier. That suggests this application of these cartouches was in place much earlier than the blades noted in Briggs.
Perhaps it could be some sort of talismanic blessing (?) to the blade, otherwise I would presume the acceptance stamp. In that case there may be some kind of administrative purpose.

25th April 2019, 03:29 AM	#1
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	HI Charles, I've long followed this wonderful sword and it is certainly in the right home now. I've also kept this reference in mind for years and this is the right place to include it as a specific example of 17th C. North Africa/Ottoman workmanship. The attached images from a German private collection show a sword with similar enamel work, with a different style grip, but with the classic Mediterranean trade blade, often attributed to Genoa (though I think Mediterranean is the best we can do at this point without specific evidence of an Italian city production). I would certainly think this sword has little to do with the East African style of sword, lso referred to as a nimcha, and even less with the swords originating from the Southern Arabian peninsula, a (interestingly that is the terminology along the west coast of India as well for a sword indicating the trade routes the word, if not the form traveled on, though there are Hyderabadi hilt forms that are similar to the East African, or rather Indian Ocean style of hilt). However, the Bukharan enamel connection is definetely a possibility as I've seen this blue and green enamel work on other Ottoman daggers, including on sold by us some years back over gold, see below: http://armsandantiques.com/beautiful...r-dagger-id851 And also another found in the Wallace Collection. I think the enamelling is most likely early 18th C. Ottoman workmanship, likely on order depending on where in the Empire, or associated states, it went. Attached Images

25th April 2019, 05:22 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Fernando, Here are a couple of pics, but they are very difficult to make out, though the stamp on one side is much clearer than the other. Let me know if you are able to decipher anything from it. Attached Images

25th April 2019, 03:33 AM	#2
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	One final point on dating is that the form of the scabbard and the style of mounting hearkens most closely to the early Ottoman period mounted swords, often with karabela shaped hilts, with the central medallion and band. In addition, the specific style of decoration with a repetitive decorative pattern, along the scabbard fittings that is similar to Ottoman 17th C. karabelas, and is also found on East European swords of the period as well, which were themselves likely influenced by Ottoman workmanship. One does not find the central scabbard fitting of this style, on 18th C. or later Ottoman sword generally.

25th April 2019, 03:37 AM	#3
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	And finally in reference to an 18th C.dating, the gold yataghan given by the Bey of Tunis to Danish King Frederik V, illustrated in Niels Arthur Andersen's book on "Gold and Coral" provides a further reference for this scabbard style and mounting, though that sword was presented in 1753. Now in the Danish National Museum (EM60a,EM60b, and EMb61)

25th April 2019, 03:48 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	A&A, we crossed posts.....well noted on the Ottoman enameling and styling, and the distinct influence of some of these decorative techniques in Europe, with their fascination with 'Oriental' exotica. There are distinct similarities in these hilts with certain N.Italian hilts of 16th c. with the quillon systems as well as the ring guards seen on the 'nimchas' long held to be 'Zanzibar' examples.

25th April 2019, 04:16 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	I wonder if a translation of the Arabic script on the bands might provide useful information.

26th April 2019, 10:38 AM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Charles, my idea was more to show the stamp to members within this type of (Islamic) swords than attempting my self to identify it. Marks (stamps) are a vital asset; they often open the doors to crack enigmas. While inscriptions, for as important as they are for the item's record, may fall into 'generic' religious statements, smith (or arsenal) marks may drive you into the actual origin of the piece. ... Just saying .

26th April 2019, 05:42 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	The deeply stamped circular cartouche seems a convention which runs typical in Algerian context sabres (which is how Briggs. 1965, terms the probable nimshas in his collection then). In accord with the drawings in his article, "European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers", JAAS, Vol. V, #2, 1965, p.37-92......on p.78, he describes two of these 'sabres' as having these as having circular marks containing Arabic characters in illegible combination, but while in this same blade location.....only on one side. Though he suggests the blades, both with identical three fuller configuration, are either Italian or German and of 16th or 17th c. As one of the blades has ANDREA FERARA, this profoundly suggests Solingen, and likely end of 17th into 18thc. Briggs notes that these markings were probably stamped later, but prior to 'damascening' on the blade. This further suggests some type of arsenal or acceptance (?) kind of stamp which was apparently placed on these blades (in this blade location) as the blades were received. In Charles' example (OP) the flared tip blade in my opinion in unlikely to be German, quite likely Italian (as these are comparable to some storta blades I believe) and seems earlier. That suggests this application of these cartouches was in place much earlier than the blades noted in Briggs. Perhaps it could be some sort of talismanic blessing (?) to the blade, otherwise I would presume the acceptance stamp. In that case there may be some kind of administrative purpose.