Warning to bid by Schuler auctions Zürich

Tim Simmons · 23rd March 2019, 06:31 PM

If the UK leaves the EU it will put the kibosh on buying from anywhere unless you have money to burn.

mariusgmioc · 23rd March 2019, 07:53 PM

Hello Detlef,

It is not only Schuler auctions. It happened to me too often with auction houses from US and Europe alike. Sometimes I paid the hugely inflated shipping bill. In some other instances, I managed to negotiate a better price or I found myself another service provider who gave me a better price. Unfortunately, there were several situations when I simply left my item with the auction house to put it on sale again.

PS: I once even went to the US only to pick up my lots. I went there Friday and returned Sunday..

Kubur · 23rd March 2019, 09:10 PM

Warning about Czernys
I got 3 books and they asked me 100 euros to pack and ship.
I suspect some auctionners to do their profit on the shipping
disgusting

Sajen · 23rd March 2019, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I suspect some auctionners to do their profit on the shipping
disgusting

Hi Kubur,

I suspect the same. A very untrustworthy behavior!

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 23rd March 2019, 09:58 PM

Yes I think it is so, I believe there is an element of hidden profit in the packing and shipping of items bought at auction.

But there are other factors too.

If I sell a keris to somebody, it takes me about 45 minutes to pack it, it takes more time to fill in the Customs forms, then take it to the Post Office. If somebody insists on a courier service, it takes even longer. Then there is the cost of packing material. To obtain packing material takes time and vehicle use. There is a very big time element in sending items from one place to another, and trying to ensure that they get there safely. Then, of course we have administration time and overheads.

My professional background is audit, with a foundation of accountancy. If I were advising a client engaged in selling, packing and shipping individual items, all of varying sizes, shapes,value and fragility, my feeling is that I would probably come close to a similar level of cost to customer for provision of this service, as do most auction houses.

If an employee is concerned in any operation, the employer needs to make a profit from that employee's time, or there is no sense in running the business.

It is a very different situation where a private seller is involved, even if that private seller sells reasonably large quantities of goods. The private seller will usually not charge for his time, he will charge just sufficient to cover material costs, and he will usually use a postal service as the carrier, rather than a courier, mostly he does not even think about vehicle costs or other overheads.

When I was a kid, say under 30 or so, auction houses in Australia used to charge the seller 10%. No listing charge, no buyers commission, just 10% from the seller. As time went by it seems that every auction house in the world got the idea that to be like Christies, or Sothebys, all they needed to do was to raise their fees to similar, or even higher levels. So the race to the top began. Now we have a situation where the seller pays 25% or more + catalogue listing costs + photography costs, the buyer pays 25%, and the auctioneer makes a motza --- or maybe he doesn't.

Many major auction houses are publicly listed companies, public companies have a legal obligation to make every effort to make a profit for their share holders.

In another life-time I used to buy a lot at auction, not just keris & other sharp pointy things, but all sorts of things.

I liked auctions, for entertainment value if nothing else.

I have not bid at auction, either live or online in many years.

Sajen · 23rd March 2019, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If I sell a keris to somebody, it takes me about 45 minutes to pack it, it takes more time to fill in the Customs forms, then take it to the Post Office. If somebody insists on a courier service, it takes even longer. Then there is the cost of packing material. To obtain packing material takes time and vehicle use. There is a very big time element in sending items from one place to another, and trying to ensure that they get there safely. Then, of course we have administration time and overheads.

My professional background is audit, with a foundation of accountancy. If I were advising a client engaged in selling, packing and shipping individual items, all of varying sizes, shapes,value and fragility, my feeling is that I would probably come close to a similar level of cost to customer for provision of this service, as do most auction houses.

If an employee is concerned in any operation, the employer needs to make a profit from that employee's time, or there is no sense in running the business.

Hello Alan,

I sell as well, in my case by ebay. I have it easy with the packing material, I get it for free by my job. But you are correct, packing & shipping need time and also money for sure. In my case I have often minus or just back my money for shipping since ebay take from sellers also fees on shipping cost.

I wouln't have been angry when they would have taken half of the asked price which is still high because I understand the from you stated facts but the asked price is for sure much to high, there is for example no shipping insurance included nor the custom tax. The asked price is simple rip-off and far away from serious.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 23rd March 2019, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

It is not only Schuler auctions. It happened to me too often with auction houses from US and Europe alike. Sometimes I paid the hugely inflated shipping bill. In some other instances, I managed to negotiate a better price or I found myself another service provider who gave me a better price. Unfortunately, there were several situations when I simply left my item with the auction house to put it on sale again.

We should name this auction houses that other members are warned when they bid by this auction houses! I wouldn't be surprised when Schuler and this shipping organisation named YSDS are interwoven in any way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

PS: I once even went to the US only to pick up my lots. I went there Friday and returned Sunday..

Isn't it a shame that a journey with areoplane from the Netherlands to the States is cheaper as shipping with their service?

Or in my case a trip with Flixbus? I call the price they want to have for this rather simple service racketeering.

Regards,
Detlef

Kubur · 23rd March 2019, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

We should name this auction houses that other members are warned when they bid by this auction houses!

Hi Sajen

I think we should if the admins let us do it without censoring.
I wonder if there is any link between this forum and the auctions houses as many dealers are using this forum...

Sajen · 23rd March 2019, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Sajen

I think we should if the admins let us do it without censoring.
I wonder if there is any link between this forum and the auctions houses as many dealers are using this forum...

Hi Kubur,

I hope they let us do like this. When I've picked up my panabas I will send the link of this thread to Schuler, i think they will learn only when it hurts, sadly.

I really wonder what they will ask for the service when it will need to get shipped overseas!?

Regards,
Detlef

Will M · 5th April 2019, 06:07 PM

I am finding now that UK packing/shipping swords to Canada is in excess of £100 and this is not including Canadian taxes/duty.
Only once I purchased a lot with 4 items, smaller knives. The shipping co tried to charge £150. I told them a sword 3x the boxed size is £100 so they reduced it by £50.
Taking advantage of foreign buyers results in less sales to them.
Personally I have all but stopped buying anything in the UK. One must buy extremely low and must be a good piece to warrant these exorbitant charges.
I have found on occasion a very few auction houses offer in house shipping which is usually considerably less than other couriers.
I do not use UPS since their policies in the UK prevent them from shipping any antique sword and you wind up waiting for weeks to have your package resent by another firm and get a refund for taxes/duty.

23rd March 2019, 06:31 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	If the UK leaves the EU it will put the kibosh on buying from anywhere unless you have money to burn.

23rd March 2019, 07:53 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Hello Detlef, It is not only Schuler auctions. It happened to me too often with auction houses from US and Europe alike. Sometimes I paid the hugely inflated shipping bill. In some other instances, I managed to negotiate a better price or I found myself another service provider who gave me a better price. Unfortunately, there were several situations when I simply left my item with the auction house to put it on sale again. PS: I once even went to the US only to pick up my lots. I went there Friday and returned Sunday..

23rd March 2019, 09:10 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Warning about Czernys I got 3 books and they asked me 100 euros to pack and ship. I suspect some auctionners to do their profit on the shipping disgusting

23rd March 2019, 09:58 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes I think it is so, I believe there is an element of hidden profit in the packing and shipping of items bought at auction. But there are other factors too. If I sell a keris to somebody, it takes me about 45 minutes to pack it, it takes more time to fill in the Customs forms, then take it to the Post Office. If somebody insists on a courier service, it takes even longer. Then there is the cost of packing material. To obtain packing material takes time and vehicle use. There is a very big time element in sending items from one place to another, and trying to ensure that they get there safely. Then, of course we have administration time and overheads. My professional background is audit, with a foundation of accountancy. If I were advising a client engaged in selling, packing and shipping individual items, all of varying sizes, shapes,value and fragility, my feeling is that I would probably come close to a similar level of cost to customer for provision of this service, as do most auction houses. If an employee is concerned in any operation, the employer needs to make a profit from that employee's time, or there is no sense in running the business. It is a very different situation where a private seller is involved, even if that private seller sells reasonably large quantities of goods. The private seller will usually not charge for his time, he will charge just sufficient to cover material costs, and he will usually use a postal service as the carrier, rather than a courier, mostly he does not even think about vehicle costs or other overheads. When I was a kid, say under 30 or so, auction houses in Australia used to charge the seller 10%. No listing charge, no buyers commission, just 10% from the seller. As time went by it seems that every auction house in the world got the idea that to be like Christies, or Sothebys, all they needed to do was to raise their fees to similar, or even higher levels. So the race to the top began. Now we have a situation where the seller pays 25% or more + catalogue listing costs + photography costs, the buyer pays 25%, and the auctioneer makes a motza --- or maybe he doesn't. Many major auction houses are publicly listed companies, public companies have a legal obligation to make every effort to make a profit for their share holders. In another life-time I used to buy a lot at auction, not just keris & other sharp pointy things, but all sorts of things. I liked auctions, for entertainment value if nothing else. I have not bid at auction, either live or online in many years.

5th April 2019, 06:07 PM	#10
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 394	I am finding now that UK packing/shipping swords to Canada is in excess of £100 and this is not including Canadian taxes/duty. Only once I purchased a lot with 4 items, smaller knives. The shipping co tried to charge £150. I told them a sword 3x the boxed size is £100 so they reduced it by £50. Taking advantage of foreign buyers results in less sales to them. Personally I have all but stopped buying anything in the UK. One must buy extremely low and must be a good piece to warrant these exorbitant charges. I have found on occasion a very few auction houses offer in house shipping which is usually considerably less than other couriers. I do not use UPS since their policies in the UK prevent them from shipping any antique sword and you wind up waiting for weeks to have your package resent by another firm and get a refund for taxes/duty.