Significance of Beaded Edges/Borders on South Indian Weapons?

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Sino-Tibetan style of Buddhist bronze sculpture. Beginning of the 15th century.

In India Buddhism has absorbed less archaic beliefs than Hinduism. Beautiful sculpture, but what else?

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

In India Buddhism has absorbed less archaic beliefs than Hinduism. Beautiful sculpture, but what else?

Sculpture of the early 15th century, in accordance with the canons and rules of the 10th century. At a minimum, we can put aside talk about European influence.
The number of channels of Tibetan influence on the weapon style of China and Japan was very small. First of all, it is Tibetan Buddhism and its religious meaning.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Sculpture of the early 15th century, in accordance with the canons and rules of the 10th century. At a minimum, we can put aside talk about European influence.

Take your time, colleague. We will definitely hear about Alexander the Great.

... already almost... As I can see.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Take your time, colleague. We will definitely hear about Alexander the Great.

You know that I am ready for this

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

You know that I am ready for this

Me too! Always ready to learn While it is unlikely to broadly assign the origin of the beaded. raised dot motif to any one source, it is interesting to see the uses and presence of it in various cultural and religious contexts through history.

[mross]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Me too! Always ready to learn While it is unlikely to broadly assign the origin of the beaded. raised dot motif to any one source, it is interesting to see the uses and presence of it in various cultural and religious contexts through history.

Not to hijack the thread, thou this may. I think it has been firmly established that the bead "embellishment" occurs across time and and culture. In America the Native Americans have a very long history of bead-work. I think a much more interesting question is; Why the bead?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

At #47 the illustrated publication rattles on at great lengths about the bead and its attachment to American Indian History not to mention the value as a trade item... Trade beads travelled the globe in this role. It is reasonable to assume the raised dot or to give it the correct term dome was associated with beads thus the term beaded border... weaving its way across jewellery, arms n armour and ceramics. Doming is in fact the name of the technique for producing this beaded effect in Jewellery making across the Hindu spectrum.

[ariel]

" Why the bead?"

I think because it all started with necklaces. We see them in virtually every archeological excavation and in every contemporary primitive culture : shell necklaces, nut necklaces, pebble necklaces, teeth necklaces... Europeans carried necklace beads to every corner of the Earth they traveled to as a "fair" exchange currency for gold, gems, spices, hides etc.
More technologically advanced non-European societies manufactured their own beads, initially likely for the same necklaces, then for prayer beads ( known in Greece since 17 century B.C.E.) and then it became just such a common prettyfying element, that it was used for many types of jewelry ( including sophisticated filigree) and any other object, including weapons.

PS. I missed Ibrahiim's post and agree with him completely. Again, I do not think we are talking about some highfalutin' sacral origins, just a practical approach at adorning our females :-)

Happy wife, - happy life.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

In India Buddhism has absorbed less archaic beliefs than Hinduism. Beautiful sculpture, but what else?

Naturally. Hinduism is much older religion.

And, indeed.... what else?

[Mercenary]

We are all talking about the same thing, but from different points of view. It is clear that these beads are just embellishment (on weapons of 16-19th century, which we know and study). In ancient time, as I believe, real small bells could be attached to weapons, as it is sometimes found on weapons for Indian fests and performances. But we must understand that aesthetic perception is not taken from nowhere. If generations of Indian artists (from childhood to old age) had seen the three-beam star of Mercedes-Benz at all holidays and events around, it would find expression in art sooner or later.

Especially if this star had a sacral and ritual significance

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Although I am still waiting for the key picture in this regard to upload>>>the raised dot style border>>>>>>> I can assure you that I have the definitive artefact in the bag! A tile from the MASOUD III PALACE in GAZNI Afghanistan in precisely this style> This was found to be pre Islamic Iranian ...the building was occupied up to 1221 but sacked by the Mongolians. The publication containing the item is shown below and is a British Museum publication.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by ariel

Naturally. Hinduism is much older religion.

And, indeed.... what else?

the differences in patterns of visual art

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THAT TILE . Here it is …This passage makes specific reference to these dotted/beaded border tiles as being pre Islamic Iranian and portraying mythical beasts with this very specific decoration with raised dots / bead style... in words to that effect... and being so early as to show promise in my view across the regions with perhaps transmission into the Indian Ocean areas as well as on Pilgrimages to Mecca? and into India.. Technical transfer of patterns took place as war trade and travel in the form of Pilgrimages and exploration was common as well as the bounty of winner takes all in wars... This also included the requisitioning of artisans who would frequently be transferred to the winning sides into schools of excellence royal court workshops and other centres of workmanship as a natural too ing and fro ing of expertise.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Taking the jewellery making situation in tandem with the revelations on ceramics here are a few pictures showing Hindu work; clearly an ancient skill and the picture of the workers in India from a sketch of a Company workshop (EIC?) in 1850 and illustrating the handed down time proven techniques obviously going back many centuries along with the ancient dies illustrated also showing the beaded edge on several of the exhibits. The dotted border arm jewellery showing the very old Hindu Deity indicates an ancient form and where that style may have easily transferred to weapons arms and armour making as previously shown at #1 etc... coupled with the respect a beaded border had already been given in pre Islamic Iranian ceramics..