Balinese/Lombok Keris for comments

[Athanase]

The blade length is 30cm, sorry for forgetting.

[David]

Originally Posted by Athanase

The blade length is 30cm, sorry for forgetting.

Yes, mine is a similar length. Definitely short for what we have come to expect from Bali blades.
Here is another similar dress combo of sunggingan sheath and Tapukan hilt, though the blade seems a more standard size.

[Jean]

Few observations & questions but not conclusions about Athanase's kris:
. The sunggingan sampir appears quite recently painted?
. Yes, the blade has some Bali/ Lombok features such as the twin lambe gajah, groove on the front of the ganja, ganja wulung, etc. but what about the pamor pattern and blade surface?
. Any reason for such a short blade size? (it does not seem to have been significantly shortened). How does it fit into the scabbard slot?
. Since at least the 1990's, the krisses from Bali/ Lombok fetch much higher prices than the Javanese ones for the tourists so it is common to fit Javanese blades into Balinese scabbards for increasing their market value.
. Are the Sasak from Lombok wearing the kris high in the back like the Balinese?
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Few observations & questions but not conclusions about Athanase's kris:
. The sunggingan sampir appears quite recently painted?
. Yes, the blade has some Bali/ Lombok features such as the twin lambe gajah, groove on the front of the ganja, ganja wulung, etc. but what about the pamor pattern and blade surface?
. Any reason for such a short blade size? (it does not seem to have been significantly shortened). How does it fit into the scabbard slot?
. Since at least the 1990's, the krisses from Bali/ Lombok fetch much higher prices than the Javanese ones for the tourists so it is common to fit Javanese blades into Balinese scabbards for increasing their market value.
. Are the Sasak from Lombok wearing the kris high in the back like the Balinese?
Regards

Good questions Jean.
Yes, the blade certainly has Bali/Lombok indicators. As i said earlier, i would more suspect Lombok. The keris is old, but from what i can see in the photos it still looks like a it once had a polished Bali surface. And the way the gonjo is cut and the quality/look of the iron reminds me very much of an old (and short) Lombok keris i once owned.
True, we cannot see the fit. But if you are trying to figure out what such a short blade is doing in a normal sized Bali scabbard i can refer you to my own example as a precedent. True, i have not shown many photos, but you can clearly see the fit that my short blade has in its long sarong so obviously it has been done for whatever reason. It was just a guess on my part that might have something to due with how the keris is worn as a part of over all dress, but i am certainly open to other ideas.
I am not at all sure why you believe the sampir has been recently painted. It shows very clear signs of what looks like natural wear over a long period of time.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Here is another similar dress combo of suggingan sheath and Tapukan hilt, though the blade seems a more standard size.

Mismatched blade and scabbard?

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Mismatched blade and scabbard?

I have no idea judging solely by these photos. Why do you suspect so?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Jean

Mismatched blade and scabbard?

The sampir is designed for a ganja kelap lintah...

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

The sampir is designed for a ganja kelap lintah...

Well, you might be correct there. Not something i really noticed from these photos. However, my purpose in posting was to show similar dress to both Athanase and mine. Whether or not the blade was re-fitted to this dress was not really important.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Whether or not the blade was re-fitted to this dress was not really important.

I understand David but for me it is important to try to know whether these short blades fitted on Balinese / Lombok krisses are original or not (dealer's montage). They may be older blades as you have suggested, however from memory they do not appear in the large collection of Lombok krisses shown in the Lalu Djelenga books for instance.

[Athanase]

The fitting of my keris in the wrangka is near perfect.
The wood of scabbard is light and less quality than my non-painted balineses Keris.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I understand David but for me it is important to try to know whether these short blades fitted on Balinese / Lombok krisses are original or not (dealer's montage). They may be older blades as you have suggested, however from memory they do not appear in the large collection of Lombok krisses shown in the Lalu Djelenga books for instance.

Understood Jean. So apparently we have mine, which i am pretty certain is a sheath made specially with this old, relatively short Bali/Lombok blade, and now Athanase is confirming that his sheath also seems cut to fit.
Athanase, can you take a photo of the top of the sheath so we can see the fit?