A cabasset for comments ... please

fernando · 20th February 2019, 01:04 PM

Thank you for the reassuring words, Jim.
As a matter of fact, this cabasset comes from a rather reliable collector, whom i would not question; but apart from its authenticity, i wished to make it clear about the mark (thus origin), which was already my own inferrement, and towards some additional details hopefully provided by our fellow members.
Yo are right in that the "pear stalk" name came after these were of common use in Britain, apparently brought there by the Spaniards; but i fancy more the Cabasset attribution, for reasons connected with either my own and Spanish nomenclature. In principle brought from the Catalunian Cabasset, is based on Latin Capaceum, from Capere, meaning Contain, by conclusion "Protect" (one's head). Curiously still nowadays we here call a drivers protection helmet a "Capacete".
Good catch on the Vice-Roy "golden helmet", that we have discussed HERE. I just didn't divert into such beauties direction as i wished to (primarily) focus on the analysis of this one i am now presenting for comments.
It is of course only natural that these capacetes were not only Spanish but also Portuguese; an inevitable saga, due to both our Iberian proximity as also due to the fact that between 1580-1640 Portugal was under domain of the Spanish realm, which certainly increased cultural (and not only) influences.

.

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2019, 04:13 PM

Interesting detail on the colloquial terms used for these helmets, and the etymology derivation. The 'pear stalk' term did indeed expand from the British and European versions later. It is interesting to me that these are a form of the familiar and almost cliche' 'combed morion'.

I noted the aside on the "Man in the Golden Helmet" because it is a brilliant example of these helmets and that while in effect, a common other ranks type, they did reach more illustrious character. The famed painting by Rembrandt certainly added a bit of mystique (the fact it was from his 'school' not his hand not withstanding) and dimension to the story of these helmets.

The armourers mark you have added certainly provides compelling evidence of the Spanish origin of this example, and the Gyngell reference has been venerably sound in the limited field of markings compendiums. It seems that most cases known of spurious use of these markings applies to sword blades and perhaps sometimes in guns....but it does not seem as much the case in armourers marks. Perhaps that is an assumption on my part with my being basically unfamiliar with armour in general?

These are the times I wish Mr. Senefelder would chime in!!

fernando · 21st February 2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... These are the times I wish Mr. Senefelder would chime in!!

Unfortunately (mysteriously ?) A. Senefelder has ended his participation almost two years ago, not only in our forum but also in other venues, as i contextually noticed.
Pity there (apparently) is not a wider audience to assist and contribute to armour discussions ... for my regret

fernando · 23rd February 2019, 03:45 PM

A paper & copper essay for a plume holder. I will visit the (silver) smith workshop on Monday. Will ask them if the fixation rivets are better to be made of silver, a softer material, instead of iron, to not further damage the holes with the beating.
... Or maybe the whole thing in silver; exotic ... and hopefully not much expensive !

.

fernando · 23rd February 2019, 05:09 PM

Well, in the lack of a minimum quorum to keep this thread alive, i have to see that the party goes on, myself

.
Here is a rather interesting illustration of cabassets that i found while browsing on the subject.

.

Jim McDougall · 24th February 2019, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Well, in the lack of a minimum quorum to keep this thread alive, i have to see that the party goes on, myself

.
Here is a rather interesting illustration of cabassets that i found while browsing on the subject.

.

This is a wonderful plate of illustrations on the various versions of the cabasset. While thought of as a simple common soldiers helmet, it clearly had well embellished examples in many cases.

Interesting to see the names of Lillian and Fred Funcken, who I seem to recall from military miniature days of the painting of these small figures and wargamers (it was about 40 or more years ago). They published some of the finest illustrations for these purposes and accuracy was incredible. I recall trying my hand at this VERY briefly!

ulfberth · 24th February 2019, 09:43 AM

Here is one in the Metropolitan mMuseum , in polychrome rather unusual.
kind regards,
Ulfberth

20th February 2019, 01:04 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for the reassuring words, Jim. As a matter of fact, this cabasset comes from a rather reliable collector, whom i would not question; but apart from its authenticity, i wished to make it clear about the mark (thus origin), which was already my own inferrement, and towards some additional details hopefully provided by our fellow members. Yo are right in that the "pear stalk" name came after these were of common use in Britain, apparently brought there by the Spaniards; but i fancy more the Cabasset attribution, for reasons connected with either my own and Spanish nomenclature. In principle brought from the Catalunian Cabasset, is based on Latin Capaceum, from Capere, meaning Contain, by conclusion "Protect" (one's head). Curiously still nowadays we here call a drivers protection helmet a "Capacete". Good catch on the Vice-Roy "golden helmet", that we have discussed HERE. I just didn't divert into such beauties direction as i wished to (primarily) focus on the analysis of this one i am now presenting for comments. It is of course only natural that these capacetes were not only Spanish but also Portuguese; an inevitable saga, due to both our Iberian proximity as also due to the fact that between 1580-1640 Portugal was under domain of the Spanish realm, which certainly increased cultural (and not only) influences. . Attached Images

23rd February 2019, 03:45 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A paper & copper essay for a plume holder. I will visit the (silver) smith workshop on Monday. Will ask them if the fixation rivets are better to be made of silver, a softer material, instead of iron, to not further damage the holes with the beating. ... Or maybe the whole thing in silver; exotic ... and hopefully not much expensive ! . Attached Images

23rd February 2019, 05:09 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well, in the lack of a minimum quorum to keep this thread alive, i have to see that the party goes on, myself . Here is a rather interesting illustration of cabassets that i found while browsing on the subject. . Attached Images

24th February 2019, 09:43 AM	#7
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 413	cabasset(s) Here is one in the Metropolitan mMuseum , in polychrome rather unusual. kind regards, Ulfberth Attached Images

20th February 2019, 04:13 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Interesting detail on the colloquial terms used for these helmets, and the etymology derivation. The 'pear stalk' term did indeed expand from the British and European versions later. It is interesting to me that these are a form of the familiar and almost cliche' 'combed morion'. I noted the aside on the "Man in the Golden Helmet" because it is a brilliant example of these helmets and that while in effect, a common other ranks type, they did reach more illustrious character. The famed painting by Rembrandt certainly added a bit of mystique (the fact it was from his 'school' not his hand not withstanding) and dimension to the story of these helmets. The armourers mark you have added certainly provides compelling evidence of the Spanish origin of this example, and the Gyngell reference has been venerably sound in the limited field of markings compendiums. It seems that most cases known of spurious use of these markings applies to sword blades and perhaps sometimes in guns....but it does not seem as much the case in armourers marks. Perhaps that is an assumption on my part with my being basically unfamiliar with armour in general? These are the times I wish Mr. Senefelder would chime in!!