Flint pistol - Nationality?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by corrado26

...There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness...

Maybe not that thin, i would say .

Originally Posted by corrado26

... Rifling only at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with "unscrewable" barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel.

You mean "screwable", Udo; yes, but not with so many dents, that i know of ... and with a different configuration .

Definitely James can tell us why he called it fake.


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[corrado26]

Ok, my mistake, screwable is the expression.

Here is a pistol of my collection made by Andreas Erttel gunmaker to the court of Saxony with a rifled barrel. The twisted grooves go down the barrel until the powder chamber and as you can see the thickness of the barrel's wall is not that much though there is a muzzle ring that increases the thickness remarkably.
corrado26

[Pukka Bundook]

I agree with Corrado that the pistol in the opening post appears to have an Italian fluted barrel. This does not mean the pistol Is Italian, as this type of barrel was used over Europe and the UK.

In Corrado's post above, he shows a pistol with a turn-off barrel. This is a very different thing, as the barrel was unscrewed for loading. In the pistol in the opening post, the muzzle decoration is just that, decoration.
It is a nice pistol, and I would have Guessed Italian, or Germanic or somewhere between the two!

Very best wishes,
Richard.
Corrado,
I was presuming when I wrote the above, that your pistol used the rifling at the muzzle to take a spanner for turning off the barrel.
Is this so?...Or, is there a lug on the barrel we can not see in the photos, that a wrench fits over? (This would be just in front of the stock towards the breech of the barrel.)

[corrado26]

That's an error, the barrel does not turn off! And as I wrote before, the grooves are twisted what would not make any sense if these grooves would have been just for a key.

[Pukka Bundook]

Dear Corrado,

I do not mind being in error, as I always wish to learn.
After I posted my reply above, I noticed that your pistol was rifled all the way, and not merely made to take a key in the muzzle. Please see my edited post above.
It seems unusual to me, to not have a barrel that unscrews, as the stock being made short, is Usually made this way so the barrel Can unscrew.
I do not pretend to know more about your pistol than you do, but it Is most unusual!

Thank you for correcting me!

Very best wishes,
Richard.

Edited again to attach a photo of a little pistol I have, with stock very similar to yours, and the tab for unscrewing the barrel to load.
This is how I Presumed your pistol was meant to work. Thank you again for putting me right!

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Corrado,
I was presuming when I wrote the above, that your pistol used the rifling at the muzzle to take a spanner for turning off the barrel.
Is this so?...Or, is there a lug on the barrel we can not see in the photos, that a wrench fits over? (This would be just in front of the stock towards the breech of the barrel.)

Dear Pukka Bandook,

sorry no, the barrel of my pistol has no lug to set a wrench, but you are right, it is very unusual that there is such a short stock. But in the collection of the Ruestkammer at Dresden there is a very similar pair also made by Erttel with the same stocks and barrels.
Regards
corrado26

[fernando]

The popularization of barrel rifling brough a great advantage; while in the smooth bore one has to load a bullet with a diameter sligthly narrower than the barrel interior, such gap called “windage”, in which pressure gases are wasted, reducing the accuracy and effective range (distance) of the shot, with the rifling one loads a bullet slightly larger than the barrel bore, reducing the gases escape, thus increasing accuracy and effective range performance.
One handicap with the (muzzle loading) rifling system is that it takes a “lot” more time to load, as the bullet doesn’t ‘fall’ into the barrel, having instead to be thoroughly & firmly rammed with the rod. Such difference in loading cadence was well noted during the Peninsular War, where the first Riflemen appeared with the Baker gun.
With the turn off barrel this brought a distinct procedure as, the wider bullet was placed right in the chamber, the gunpowder being poured directly in place, thus its portion more rationalized, the result being optimum. We call this system "forced bullet" in my neck of the woods.
I gather that these barrels may not need to be so long, due to achieved performance with such system, but longer ones may also be seen.
(Photos courtesy John W. Burgoyne)

Am i talking nonsense ?


,

[JamesKelly]

Oh my was I wrong. And glad to be so
Yes, the rifling is real, extending all the way to the breech as it should. 7 grooves, flat lands.
One minor point is the numeral eleven neatly cut into the stock.

In the USA we are intensely interested in mid-18th to early 19th century American made rifles. We call them "Kentucky rifles", possiblly bsed on an old song celebrating how our last spat with the UK turned out. Most were made in Pennsylvania. Since 1928 there have been countless books on the subject.
My point is, over here I can look at an 18th cnetury American rifle and by the style alone have a good idea where an unmarked rifle made, the state and even the county. Are there detailed books written on German flintlock pistols? I have one on Jaeger rifles written a few years ago, with English translation. Although - Ich habe nur paar worten Deutsch - I am willing to struggle through German text where flintlocks are concerned.

I thank you all for your comments. And I am happy to have a real rifled pistol. Our American "Kentucky" rifles were made by German gunsmiths in Pennsylvania, based on Germanic styling with a longer barrel. So this is the nearest I can afford to an American pistol, usually rifled.

[fernando]

Glad to hear that, James .