Ambon Keris for interest

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Jean

This style of hilt is called rekko in Sulawesi and is also found in East Sumatra, see a similar specimen.
I am curious to see the blade condition after cleaning as it is severely worn-out and rusty.
Regards

Hi Jean, here it is “mostly” cleaned, with still a few stubborn spots of rust that I’m trying to remove gently, rather than chipping them off or doing anything drastic that may damage the blade further.

I may be crucified here for the way I have gone about this but I was not able to remove the handle by heating the blade without putting more and more effort into it such that I feared doing irreversible damage. So I have ended up suspending it in vinegar and working it gently over 24 hours with a brass wire brush to clean it up. As a result I’m not all that happy with what it’s done to the colour of the selut but I’ll see how/if that may change when I polish it later.

I’ll give it overnight tonight and see how it is but I don’t want to overcook it and loose more metal from the blade by doing so.

So my query now is what to do with the rust removed? Should I gently polish the blade to try and remove the roughness caused by the rust and the acid action of the vinegar/rust removal. And should I perhaps smooth out the blade edge with a steel or fine file to remove the rough serrations caused by the rust and subsequent cleaning?

Or should I just now preserve it now with oil as described in other posts and leave it as it is? Would anyone disagree with using Renaissance wax on a Keris (as I use on my other swords) instead of the aromatic oils that I’ve read about?

[IMG]IMG_1848 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1847 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1846 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1849 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Battara]

That’s the problem with even a light acid like vinegar, it will still eat into the metal. I agree with a good polishing.

[kai]

Hello Jose,

That’s the problem with even a light acid like vinegar, it will still eat into the metal. I agree with a good polishing.

Polishing a porous blade like this is a tough task and often results in very unevenly polished surfaces (or removal of quite a lot of "healthy" metal).

Moreover, this keris originates very likely from SW Sulawesi and the local collecting community favors only etching the blade with mild acids without any polishing. One might argue from museum specimens that this practise may not be any ancient custom. However, any serious restoration work on this blade will be an uphill battle.

This is a rather small and probably fairly old blade - I'd suggest to leave it alone (after completely removing the rust).

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Greg,

here it is “mostly” cleaned, with still a few stubborn spots of rust that I’m trying to remove gently, rather than chipping them off or doing anything drastic that may damage the blade further.

It usually helps to work on those stubborn spots with a fine needle and steady hand; if you want to play safe, you can also utilize picks that are softer than the mild steel of the blade (picks from hardwood, etc.).

I may be crucified here for the way I have gone about this but I was not able to remove the handle by heating the blade without putting more and more effort into it such that I feared doing irreversible damage. So I have ended up suspending it in vinegar and working it gently over 24 hours with a brass wire brush to clean it up. As a result I’m not all that happy with what it’s done to the colour of the selut but I’ll see how/if that may change when I polish it later.

I'd be more weary of the ivory which does not respond well to acids...

It really takes perseverance to dismount some keris hilts: Just heat long enough near the flared base (up to several minutes - stop if you see bubbles from possibly boiling resin or smoke exiting from the pesi hole; with a candle flame you can't hurt the blade; make sure to protect the hilt from heat though!) and let it cool again if the hilt doesn't move upon very gentle twisting/pulling - some old keris need weeks of multiple cycles before they let go!

I’ll give it overnight tonight and see how it is but I don’t want to overcook it and loose more metal from the blade by doing so.

Removal of those stubborn spots helps to minimize total exposure of the metal blade.

So my query now is what to do with the rust removed? Should I gently polish the blade to try and remove the roughness caused by the rust and the acid action of the vinegar/rust removal. And should I perhaps smooth out the blade edge with a steel or fine file to remove the rough serrations caused by the rust and subsequent cleaning?

I'd suggest not to do any reprofiling nor even mild polishing. Some cultures prefer different approaches but any of this work needs quite specialized knowledge on traditional styles, etc.

Or should I just now preserve it now with oil as described in other posts and leave it as it is? Would anyone disagree with using Renaissance wax on a Keris (as I use on my other swords) instead of the aromatic oils that I’ve read about?

This blade will be somewhat porous and needs thorough and quick drying to avoid rust appearing again quickly. Ample application of any gun oil will help; some may prefer to use a water displacing oil first. After soaking for a few days, excess oil can be removed (or the blade just wrapped in plastic foil for longterm storage); aromatic oils can be added at this stage, too; adding a thin layer of microcrystalline wax might be helpful for display purposes - application can be quite difficult though since excess wax tends to fill crevices/pores and attract dust in the long run. I would not recommend Ren Wax since it also contains polyethylene waxes which can prove difficult to remove.

Regards,
Kai

[Larks]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Greg,


It usually helps to work on those stubborn spots with a fine needle and steady hand; if you want to play safe, you can also utilize picks that are softer than the mild steel of the blade (picks from hardwood, etc.).



I'd be more weary of the ivory which does not respond well to acids...

It really takes perseverance to dismount some keris hilts: Just heat long enough near the flared base (up to several minutes - stop if you see bubbles from possibly boiling resin or smoke exiting from the pesi hole; with a candle flame you can't hurt the blade; make sure to protect the hilt from heat though!) and let it cool again if the hilt doesn't move upon very gentle twisting/pulling - some old keris need weeks of multiple cycles before they let go!



Removal of those stubborn spots helps to minimize total exposure of the metal blade.



I'd suggest not to do any reprofiling nor even mild polishing. Some cultures prefer different approaches but any of this work needs quite specialized knowledge on traditional styles, etc.



This blade will be somewhat porous and needs thorough and quick drying to avoid rust appearing again quickly. Ample application of any gun oil will help; some may prefer to use a water displacing oil first. After soaking for a few days, excess oil can be removed (or the blade just wrapped in plastic foil for longterm storage); aromatic oils can be added at this stage, too; adding a thin layer of microcrystalline wax might be helpful for display purposes - application can be quite difficult though since excess wax tends to fill crevices/pores and attract dust in the long run. I would not recommend Ren Wax since it also contains polyethylene waxes which can prove difficult to remove.

Regards,
Kai

Thank you Kai, I really appreciate your generous and well regarded advice.

I ended up carefully chipping some of the more stubborn spots of rust with a very fine screw driver last night and was able to avoid the blade and so avoid any gouging or scratching that might have marred the blade.

And I did leave it in the vinegar overnight and this morning it looked pretty good, so I washed it thoroughly in fresh water, dried it and have left it soaking under a good dose of WD40 while I’m at work today (WD40 being all that I have at hand at the moment - I’m working away from home and so don’t have anything else much here at the moment - everything is a bit of an improvise).

I did set the blade up so as to keep the ivory hilt clear of the vinegar while soaking it as I was very mindful of damaging or discolouring that and it seems quite OK.

I will take some better photos this evening and will include a better profile of the hilt.

Thank you all again for your advice and comments
Greg

[kai]

You're welcome, Greg!

And I did leave it in the vinegar overnight and this morning it looked pretty good, so I washed it thoroughly in fresh water, dried it and have left it soaking under a good dose of WD40 while I’m at work today

Yup, that's fine for initially displacing the water; keep it soaked (wrapped in plastic) and get a good oil for longterm storage.

I did set the blade up so as to keep the ivory hilt clear of the vinegar while soaking it as I was very mindful of damaging or discolouring that and it seems quite OK.

Since vinegar evaporates, this is not a safe approach. It may be weak enough to not posit an immediate threat to already patinated surfaces though.

Rust developing on a tang will crack the base of the hilt sooner or later. Thus, I'd suggest to remove the hilt for cleaning purposes, anyway. If set with resin, it usually comes off reasonably well if heated long enough; if tight from rust, it may need many more heating cycles. Reattaching the hilt is usually done with a gentle pressure fit nowadays which allows the materials some inevitable movement due to temperature and humidty changes (the more these environmental variables can be stabilized, the better for longterm storage).

I will take some better photos this evening and will include a better profile of the hilt.

Thanks - pretty much all sides not yet shown (including the face) may exhibit some details that allow identification.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Should I gently polish the blade to try and remove the roughness caused by the rust and the acid action of the vinegar/rust removal. And should I perhaps smooth out the blade edge with a steel or fine file to remove the rough serrations caused by the rust and subsequent cleaning?

P.S.: Keris are push daggers - there is no need for neat edges. While it may feel a bit weird, I'd keep the ragged edges.