The chhatri or umbrella

rand · 8th February 2019, 01:25 PM

Looks similar to the shape of his throne.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/460422761897861582/

Was looking for star charts too, symbol crux for the Southern cross is similar also.

rand

Jim McDougall · 8th February 2019, 05:49 PM

Rand, thank you so much for this input, and you bring interesting perspectives here. Star constellations often provide the basis for certain types of markings on blades, most familiar of course are the Chinese 'seven stars' which allude tp the Ursa Major , most auspicious in their cosmology.
I have seen similar constellation or cosmological markings on some Islamic blades as well, mostly connected dot type orientation.
However I don't think this would be the source for the marking here.

What is compelling though is your mention of the Tipu throne, and looking at images of it clearly shows the parasol notably above it. That in itself brings strong suggestion to the appearance of this elaborate throne, but even with this comparison begs the question.....why is the base (orb) of this device exactly in the configuration of the well known cross & orb of Europe?

I a still wondering if this instance of marking the blade was deliberately contrived to appeal to Tipu's notion of allegorically vanquishing his enemy, the British. While the cross & orb is of course a German mark, it was well known on blades from England, as well as being a key Christian symbol.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th February 2019, 06:06 PM

I think the thread is almost on target except my thought is it is just slightly off since it is ..The Parasol ..not an especially Hindu sign but deeply rooted in Buddhism as one of the 8 auspicious signs..see https://www.ancient-symbols.com/buddhist-symbols.html the Parasol not only gives protection from the elements of rain and sun but protects on a spiritual belief level (thus Talisman) from evil and disease. therefor like a Talisman does ;it steps across religious boundaries through tradition and tribal acceptance as do several western talisman signs and beliefs and so sits very comfortably with Hindu myths and legends.

On the Tulvar Hilt it occurred to me that the POMMEL bears resemblance to the parasol and this is posed as a general question...Is it? See also the sketch above with the man sitting with a Tulvar under a Parasol..for comparison.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th February 2019, 10:56 PM

I have to say it is difficult to miss a single word from the explanation of parasols in http://www.religionfacts.com/parasol therefor in the name of education and research I have collected up much of the detail here~

Quote"The parasol or umbrella (Skt. chattra; Tib. gdugs) is a traditional Indian symbol of both protection and royalty. The ability to protect oneself against inclement weather has always, in all cultures, been a status symbol.

In Europe, until a few decades ago, a sunshade was a status symbol for society ladies. In Oriental thought, the fact that it protected the bearer from the scorching heat of the sun was transferred into the religious sphere as a "protection against the heat of defilements." Thus the coolness of its shade symbolizes protection from the heat of suffering, desire, and other spiritually harmful forces.

The dome of the umbrella is held aloft by a vertical handle (just like the mountain upholds the sky), which is identified with the 'axis mundi,' or the central axis upholding the world.

The umbrella is carried above an important dignitary or the image of a deity, to indicate that the person or symbol below the umbrella is in fact the center of the universe, and also its spiritual support. Umbrellas seem to be especially important in processional rites, being like mobile temples. Thus, depictions of the Buddha often display an elaborate and large umbrella above his head.

As it is held above the head it naturally symbolizes honor and respect. In Vajrayana Buddhism, this large umbrella (atapatra) was even deified into the thousand-armed, -footed goddess Sitapatra, whose name literally means 'the white umbrella.'

In Tibet, depending on their status, various dignitaries were entitled to different parasols, with religious heads being entitled to a silk one and secular rulers to a parasol with embroidered peacock feathers. Exalted personalities such as the Dalai Lama are entitled to both, and in processions, first a peacock parasol and then a silk one is carried after him.

The Tibetan version of the parasol was adopted from its royal Indian and Chinese prototypes, and fashioned from a wooden, spoked frame with a domed silk cover and hanging silk pendants making up an overhanging skirt.

The dome symbolizes wisdom, and the hanging skirt, compassion. Thus the composite form of the parasol signifies the union of these dual elements.

Octagonal and square parasols are also common, representing the Noble Eightfold Path and the four directional quarters respectively".Unquote

Battara · 11th February 2019, 02:14 AM

Ibrahiim I like the subject of axis mundi that you brought up. This is an area of study in my 2nd masters. Not thought of applying this to the umbrella motif until now.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 11th February 2019, 07:18 PM

Looking to Mughal Art for Parasols see below..Shah Jahan in various artworks>>

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th February 2019, 11:14 PM

Emperor Babur ..16thC … Parasol detail.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th March 2019, 08:03 PM

Mughal designs and patterns generally came with them from Persian influence. This is apparent in the different types of umbrellas as well as the magnificent Forts Mausoleums and Mosques constructed by the Mughal artisans and architects...In fact the Chhatri which normally means a type of umbrella also appears in stone built form usually on the corners of huge magnificent palaces and fortresses as small domes etc but called the same ..See https://selfstudyhistory.com/2015/01...during-mughal/

The tendency is to call also the small hand held umbrella a Chhatri...In this case held over one persons head or attached to a throne...The Emperors and in a bigger group may as seen below be seated under the bigger sun shade sometimes called a Saiban (Sunshade) and have single small Parasols raised over them. This tradition is reflected into the marriage ceremony where the bride and groom sit with the Pandit(Holy Man) for their marriage vows.

Babur(Tiger); for a quick resume of his operations see https://www.britannica.com/biography/Babur for a rapid roller coaster of his incredible achievements as the founder of The Mughal Empire.

8th February 2019, 01:25 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Orb Looks similar to the shape of his throne. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/460422761897861582/ Was looking for star charts too, symbol crux for the Southern cross is similar also. rand

8th February 2019, 05:49 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	Rand, thank you so much for this input, and you bring interesting perspectives here. Star constellations often provide the basis for certain types of markings on blades, most familiar of course are the Chinese 'seven stars' which allude tp the Ursa Major , most auspicious in their cosmology. I have seen similar constellation or cosmological markings on some Islamic blades as well, mostly connected dot type orientation. However I don't think this would be the source for the marking here. What is compelling though is your mention of the Tipu throne, and looking at images of it clearly shows the parasol notably above it. That in itself brings strong suggestion to the appearance of this elaborate throne, but even with this comparison begs the question.....why is the base (orb) of this device exactly in the configuration of the well known cross & orb of Europe? I a still wondering if this instance of marking the blade was deliberately contrived to appeal to Tipu's notion of allegorically vanquishing his enemy, the British. While the cross & orb is of course a German mark, it was well known on blades from England, as well as being a key Christian symbol. Attached Images

8th February 2019, 06:06 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I think the thread is almost on target except my thought is it is just slightly off since it is ..The Parasol ..not an especially Hindu sign but deeply rooted in Buddhism as one of the 8 auspicious signs..see https://www.ancient-symbols.com/buddhist-symbols.html the Parasol not only gives protection from the elements of rain and sun but protects on a spiritual belief level (thus Talisman) from evil and disease. therefor like a Talisman does ;it steps across religious boundaries through tradition and tribal acceptance as do several western talisman signs and beliefs and so sits very comfortably with Hindu myths and legends. On the Tulvar Hilt it occurred to me that the POMMEL bears resemblance to the parasol and this is posed as a general question...Is it? See also the sketch above with the man sitting with a Tulvar under a Parasol..for comparison. Attached Images

11th February 2019, 07:18 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Looking to Mughal Art for Parasols see below..Shah Jahan in various artworks>> Attached Images

13th February 2019, 11:14 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Emperor Babur ..16thC … Parasol detail. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 13th February 2019 at 11:33 PM.

10th February 2019, 10:56 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I have to say it is difficult to miss a single word from the explanation of parasols in http://www.religionfacts.com/parasol therefor in the name of education and research I have collected up much of the detail here~ Quote"The parasol or umbrella (Skt. chattra; Tib. gdugs) is a traditional Indian symbol of both protection and royalty. The ability to protect oneself against inclement weather has always, in all cultures, been a status symbol. In Europe, until a few decades ago, a sunshade was a status symbol for society ladies. In Oriental thought, the fact that it protected the bearer from the scorching heat of the sun was transferred into the religious sphere as a "protection against the heat of defilements." Thus the coolness of its shade symbolizes protection from the heat of suffering, desire, and other spiritually harmful forces. The dome of the umbrella is held aloft by a vertical handle (just like the mountain upholds the sky), which is identified with the 'axis mundi,' or the central axis upholding the world. The umbrella is carried above an important dignitary or the image of a deity, to indicate that the person or symbol below the umbrella is in fact the center of the universe, and also its spiritual support. Umbrellas seem to be especially important in processional rites, being like mobile temples. Thus, depictions of the Buddha often display an elaborate and large umbrella above his head. As it is held above the head it naturally symbolizes honor and respect. In Vajrayana Buddhism, this large umbrella (atapatra) was even deified into the thousand-armed, -footed goddess Sitapatra, whose name literally means 'the white umbrella.' In Tibet, depending on their status, various dignitaries were entitled to different parasols, with religious heads being entitled to a silk one and secular rulers to a parasol with embroidered peacock feathers. Exalted personalities such as the Dalai Lama are entitled to both, and in processions, first a peacock parasol and then a silk one is carried after him. The Tibetan version of the parasol was adopted from its royal Indian and Chinese prototypes, and fashioned from a wooden, spoked frame with a domed silk cover and hanging silk pendants making up an overhanging skirt. The dome symbolizes wisdom, and the hanging skirt, compassion. Thus the composite form of the parasol signifies the union of these dual elements. Octagonal and square parasols are also common, representing the Noble Eightfold Path and the four directional quarters respectively".Unquote

11th February 2019, 02:14 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Ibrahiim I like the subject of axis mundi that you brought up. This is an area of study in my 2nd masters. Not thought of applying this to the umbrella motif until now.

8th March 2019, 08:03 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Mughal designs and patterns generally came with them from Persian influence. This is apparent in the different types of umbrellas as well as the magnificent Forts Mausoleums and Mosques constructed by the Mughal artisans and architects...In fact the Chhatri which normally means a type of umbrella also appears in stone built form usually on the corners of huge magnificent palaces and fortresses as small domes etc but called the same ..See https://selfstudyhistory.com/2015/01...during-mughal/ The tendency is to call also the small hand held umbrella a Chhatri...In this case held over one persons head or attached to a throne...The Emperors and in a bigger group may as seen below be seated under the bigger sun shade sometimes called a Saiban (Sunshade) and have single small Parasols raised over them. This tradition is reflected into the marriage ceremony where the bride and groom sit with the Pandit(Holy Man) for their marriage vows. Babur(Tiger); for a quick resume of his operations see https://www.britannica.com/biography/Babur for a rapid roller coaster of his incredible achievements as the founder of The Mughal Empire. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 8th March 2019 at 08:22 PM.