Spanish Morocco Berber sword

Jim McDougall · 22nd January 2019, 12:15 AM

I think the combining of 'foreign' blades in local style hilts in colonial regions is of course a common scenario, but personally I regard these 'incarnations' of weapons as i.e. ...a Moroccan s'boula with Gras bayonet blade etc. There were many versions of s'boula with other types of blades typically bayonets.

I suppose that there are those who might regard the example as a Gras bayonet with a s'boula hilt. I am not sure which would be more correct, but depending on the context of its provenance, in Morocco, it is to me a s'boula.
In a collection of French arms or in European context it could be a Gras bayonet with a s'boula hilt from Morocco.

With the input from Marc, who was most well informed on arms in Spain (and its colonies), there was production of these in the Toledo armory in the mid 19th c.....it seems their limited production might have included these kinds of arms.

From my perspective, it does not seem that arms which arrived in a location such as colonial Spanish Morocco would have been of forms which would have invited production of copies. From what I understand of the Rif War which ensued through the 1920s from continuous insurgence in years before by the Rif tribes, the Spanish forces were a hodgepodge of conscripts and troops from many places, including Cuba etc.
Descriptions of these campaigns note low morale and struggles among these troops and that they often bartered away materials including some arms, which seems a pretty constant source for these military arms throughout the Sahara.

In considering my comments about exclusion of these sword types by Buttin in his works, perhaps they were later there than his residence and study as these campaigns in which these might have arrived were in the 1920s.

fernando · 22nd January 2019, 03:25 PM

According to Calvó, two wo types of Machetes "Cubanos" could be established; one with a straight blade, regular thickness and length, with half cane fullers in its second third, and another with an inferior thickness and wider width, without fullers. According to Dr. Hector J. Meruelo (Miami) the first one was defined as "Guanabacoa", a village close to the Capital, today its suburb.
The second type was popularized later, during the 10 years war (1868-78), abounding the examples in which blades show German or North American marks, inscribed in the Spanish idiom, as destined to the Hispano market.
A type from Guanabacoa dated 1856 shows it was made in the Toledo factory.The production over there of machetes with wide (ancha) blade, for troops equipment, was initiated in 1991, with two models destined respectively to Infantry Officers and troopers.The first to be acquired by its users and the second as munitions grade, approved by Royal Order 9th January 1892 as "model 1891 for the Infantry of the Cuban Army"

Jim McDougall · 22nd January 2019, 05:32 PM

Fernando thank you for the interpreted material from Calvo, that explains a lot of what I had presumed toward the Guanabacoa term as well as the machete Cubanos term. It does seem there was some Spanish production as you note the Toledo reference which Marc also specified some years ago.

It seems a lot of these swords were essentially forerunners of what became broadly termed machetes, and it seems that was primarily their function, the clearing of heavy undergrowth and vegetation in these tropical climes.

The 'Berber' sabres described in the OP, with the curious and distinctive hilts were typically with repurposed cavalry blades, which I have always thought in the way many were reprofiled at the tips. These to me seemed the resemble the blade point of kampilans or other such Philippines and archipelago weapons . That feature seemed to offer support for such influence from those regions and carried across the Spanish Main. That 'clipped' feature seems apparent on some of the 'Cubano' machete versions.

On the 'Berber' sabres, they had scabbards with a perpendicular protrusion at the end, which I was told was to hold the scabbard as the blade was withdrawn. Presumably it was often difficult with high humidity and heat as is the case with leather 'sweating'.
This noted pragmatism as well as weapons intended as machetes would seem to negate such designs for Moroccan regions as clearly this is not a tropical clime with such profuse vegetation. Some desert areas such as the Sonora of N. Mexico have dense undergrowth and chaparral, which was the main purpose of the espada ancha, but I do not think Morocco has that.

In the attached photos, the top is one of the 'Berber' sabres which has the M1796 blade reprofiled at the tip in the manner I described, and the scabbard has the protrusion remaining only partially in its base.
The museum case was in Barcelona and shows these along with an espada ancha.

fernando · 22nd January 2019, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... It seems a lot of these swords were essentially forerunners of what became broadly termed machetes, and it seems that was primarily their function, the clearing of heavy undergrowth and vegetation in these tropical climes ...

Precisely; the first paragraph in Calvó's article MACHETES DEL EJÉRCITO DE ULTRAMAR EN CUBA Y PUERTO RICO reads:
In the Antilles, the vegetation made of the jungle machetes an useful everyday working tool and its introduction as an equipment for its garrison forces is evidenced before 1868, in which started in Cuba the inssurectional movement.

On a different note, i don't catch whether the intention is to name the swords cased in the Barcelona Montjuic castle as Berber. I know that Don Calvó was himself the documentalist (and director ...) of this museum, which was still open when i have been there (2008?); although not with particular interest to read carefully all captions ... and the pictures i took were a disaster of quality. I regret that my picture of this case also shows unfocused captions, those clearly written in both Castillian and Catalan. Maybe someone with a better equipment can discern further .

.

fernando · 22nd January 2019, 07:05 PM

Morocco ??? ... with an English blade ???

.

Kubur · 22nd January 2019, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Morocco ??? ... with an English blade ???

.

Thanks god!
Or better god bless you!
Morocco was full of English blades for daggers, for swords and also English locks... I have a nimcha with a samuel harvey stamp just as an example.
Ibrahem posted many pictures of Moroccan ambassadors in London.
Now i'm sure that some forum members will say that the museum is wrong...
They are often wrong but not always...

TVV · 22nd January 2019, 09:34 PM

Though fuzzy the label does indeed seem to state that the sword is from Morocco with an English blade, which is the first actual evidence we have that these may be from Africa. The decoration does not look Moroccan. Maybe we can compare these to Mauritanian daggers for better comparison in decoration, assuming these are from Southern Morocco/Western Sahara.

fernando · 23rd January 2019, 09:15 PM

May we therefore tag the Machete Cubano as a most heterogeneous species ?
Starting by the particularity that Calvó always addresses its Cubano attribution between " ".
We have as origin of this discussion, Mahratt's first posted example with a Solingen (Beckman?) blade, then the actual models assigned to Cuban forces, then the 'Morocconized' decorated versions in Montjuic, not to forget the 'Berberized' possibility, the cherry on the cake would be the Collins (Hartford) version, stamped in Spanish and equipped with a shell guard, as pictured in 1895 in the hands of Cuban Army Officers.

.

22nd January 2019, 05:32 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Fernando thank you for the interpreted material from Calvo, that explains a lot of what I had presumed toward the Guanabacoa term as well as the machete Cubanos term. It does seem there was some Spanish production as you note the Toledo reference which Marc also specified some years ago. It seems a lot of these swords were essentially forerunners of what became broadly termed machetes, and it seems that was primarily their function, the clearing of heavy undergrowth and vegetation in these tropical climes. The 'Berber' sabres described in the OP, with the curious and distinctive hilts were typically with repurposed cavalry blades, which I have always thought in the way many were reprofiled at the tips. These to me seemed the resemble the blade point of kampilans or other such Philippines and archipelago weapons . That feature seemed to offer support for such influence from those regions and carried across the Spanish Main. That 'clipped' feature seems apparent on some of the 'Cubano' machete versions. On the 'Berber' sabres, they had scabbards with a perpendicular protrusion at the end, which I was told was to hold the scabbard as the blade was withdrawn. Presumably it was often difficult with high humidity and heat as is the case with leather 'sweating'. This noted pragmatism as well as weapons intended as machetes would seem to negate such designs for Moroccan regions as clearly this is not a tropical clime with such profuse vegetation. Some desert areas such as the Sonora of N. Mexico have dense undergrowth and chaparral, which was the main purpose of the espada ancha, but I do not think Morocco has that. In the attached photos, the top is one of the 'Berber' sabres which has the M1796 blade reprofiled at the tip in the manner I described, and the scabbard has the protrusion remaining only partially in its base. The museum case was in Barcelona and shows these along with an espada ancha. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 22nd January 2019 at 05:45 PM.

22nd January 2019, 07:05 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Morocco ??? ... with an English blade ??? . Attached Images

23rd January 2019, 09:15 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	May we therefore tag the Machete Cubano as a most heterogeneous species ? Starting by the particularity that Calvó always addresses its Cubano attribution between " ". We have as origin of this discussion, Mahratt's first posted example with a Solingen (Beckman?) blade, then the actual models assigned to Cuban forces, then the 'Morocconized' decorated versions in Montjuic, not to forget the 'Berberized' possibility, the cherry on the cake would be the Collins (Hartford) version, stamped in Spanish and equipped with a shell guard, as pictured in 1895 in the hands of Cuban Army Officers. . Attached Images

22nd January 2019, 12:15 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	I think the combining of 'foreign' blades in local style hilts in colonial regions is of course a common scenario, but personally I regard these 'incarnations' of weapons as i.e. ...a Moroccan s'boula with Gras bayonet blade etc. There were many versions of s'boula with other types of blades typically bayonets. I suppose that there are those who might regard the example as a Gras bayonet with a s'boula hilt. I am not sure which would be more correct, but depending on the context of its provenance, in Morocco, it is to me a s'boula. In a collection of French arms or in European context it could be a Gras bayonet with a s'boula hilt from Morocco. With the input from Marc, who was most well informed on arms in Spain (and its colonies), there was production of these in the Toledo armory in the mid 19th c.....it seems their limited production might have included these kinds of arms. From my perspective, it does not seem that arms which arrived in a location such as colonial Spanish Morocco would have been of forms which would have invited production of copies. From what I understand of the Rif War which ensued through the 1920s from continuous insurgence in years before by the Rif tribes, the Spanish forces were a hodgepodge of conscripts and troops from many places, including Cuba etc. Descriptions of these campaigns note low morale and struggles among these troops and that they often bartered away materials including some arms, which seems a pretty constant source for these military arms throughout the Sahara. In considering my comments about exclusion of these sword types by Buttin in his works, perhaps they were later there than his residence and study as these campaigns in which these might have arrived were in the 1920s.

22nd January 2019, 03:25 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	According to Calvó, two wo types of Machetes "Cubanos" could be established; one with a straight blade, regular thickness and length, with half cane fullers in its second third, and another with an inferior thickness and wider width, without fullers. According to Dr. Hector J. Meruelo (Miami) the first one was defined as "Guanabacoa", a village close to the Capital, today its suburb. The second type was popularized later, during the 10 years war (1868-78), abounding the examples in which blades show German or North American marks, inscribed in the Spanish idiom, as destined to the Hispano market. A type from Guanabacoa dated 1856 shows it was made in the Toledo factory.The production over there of machetes with wide (ancha) blade, for troops equipment, was initiated in 1991, with two models destined respectively to Infantry Officers and troopers.The first to be acquired by its users and the second as munitions grade, approved by Royal Order 9th January 1892 as "model 1891 for the Infantry of the Cuban Army"

22nd January 2019, 09:34 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,725	Though fuzzy the label does indeed seem to state that the sword is from Morocco with an English blade, which is the first actual evidence we have that these may be from Africa. The decoration does not look Moroccan. Maybe we can compare these to Mauritanian daggers for better comparison in decoration, assuming these are from Southern Morocco/Western Sahara.