vintage panabas for comment

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

The usual weapon forms are indeed quite large and often heavy. In combat they were often a "mopping up" weapon used to dispatch wounded enemy. They could also be used as "heavy assault" weapons but the weight of some of these would prohibit "dueling" unless the person was extremely strong and skilled. There are lighter combat versions too. The double-edged padsumbalim variant usually has a lighter blade and might serve hand-to-hand combat better.

Panabas were also used for ceremonial and execution purposes, and for administering harsh penalties such as the removal of a hand for convicted thieves, although I think these uses have been somewhat over stated and relate mainly to practices prior to WWII.

Ian.

Hi Ian, hope you won't mind me digging up an old thread. My BangsaMoro friends- to be precise, a Tausug, a Yakan, and a Maguindanaoan- have all disputed the pervasive definition of the panabas as a "mopping up" weapon used to dispatch wounded enemies. Some definitions even go as far as to claim that women and children did this task- a very false claim, because imagine- how would women and children be able to carry such a heavy weapon into the battlefield?

My sources believe- as do I- that the 'battle' panabas was a strictly ceremonial and execution weapon, and not at all brought to the battlefield. From what I've studied of Moro Fighting Arts (MFA) and my handling of a small sample of modern and antique BangsaMoro weapons, there would be no 'mopping up' necessary. The main battle blades- kampilan, barung, kris, pira, etc- are already capable of decapitating or maiming enemies in one strike.

Oh, and nice panabas. I hope to get a modern version one of these days; I heard there are traditional smiths in Maguindanao who are still up to the task. The problem is accessibility, as they are located within a perennial warzone.

[Ian]

Hi xasterix:

Thanks for the interesting thoughts and information from your sources. As far as panabas used as weapons on the battlefield, I seem to recall that Captain Pershing's expeditions in the Lake Lanao region during the early 1900s reported the use of the panabas on the battlefield, and may have collected examples as battlefield pickups. I will try to find the reports of those expeditions. I think related materials were deposited with the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History. Krieger's publication by the Smithsonian (see elsewhere on this site for the figures/plates from that publication) might show some of the Pershing collection.

In support of the panabas as a battlefield weapon, I own a plain example with an old blade guard made from a grooved length of carved wood about an inch wide running the length of the cutting edge, that is held in place by a narrow piece of cloth wrapped around the blade and guard several times. This arrangement seems designed for transporting the panabas rather than using it for ceremonial or judicial purposes. Occasional wooden sheaths made of two pieces of wood held together by light rattan strips are also found. The main function of sheaths/scabbards are to facilitate transportation of the weapon. I have also heard from contacts in Mindanao that the panabas was carried into battle wrapped in cloth—however, my contacts were not Moros.

The padsumbalin panabas seems particularly well suited for combat, often being double-edged. I have a couple of these that are lighter than most other versions of the panabas.

Use of the panabas as a "mop-up" weapon has been reported, notably by Robert Cato in his book Moro Weapons, and others have made similar comments. However, I don't know of an historical reference to support that function. As you note, swords would have been equally effective. My earlier comment about its use as a "mop-up" weapon was based on these sources, but I have no hard evidence to support that use.

Ian

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi Ian, hope you won't mind me digging up an old thread. My BangsaMoro friends- to be precise, a Tausug, a Yakan, and a Maguindanaoan- have all disputed the pervasive definition of the panabas as a "mopping up" weapon used to dispatch wounded enemies. Some definitions even go as far as to claim that women and children did this task- a very false claim, because imagine- how would women and children be able to carry such a heavy weapon into the battlefield?

My sources believe- as do I- that the 'battle' panabas was a strictly ceremonial and execution weapon, and not at all brought to the battlefield. From what I've studied of Moro Fighting Arts (MFA) and my handling of a small sample of modern and antique BangsaMoro weapons, there would be no 'mopping up' necessary. The main battle blades- kampilan, barung, kris, pira, etc- are already capable of decapitating or maiming enemies in one strike.

Oh, and nice panabas. I hope to get a modern version one of these days; I heard there are traditional smiths in Maguindanao who are still up to the task. The problem is accessibility, as they are located within a perennial warzone.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi xasterix:

Thanks for the interesting thoughts and information from your sources. As far as panabas used as weapons on the battlefield, I seem to recall that Captain Pershing's expeditions in the Lake Lanao region during the early 1900s reported the use of the panabas on the battlefield, and may have collected examples as battlefield pickups. I will try to find the reports of those expeditions. I think related materials were deposited with the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History. Krieger's publication by the Smithsonian (see elsewhere on this site for the figures/plates from that publication) might show some of the Pershing collection.

In support of the panabas as a battlefield weapon, I own a plain example with an old blade guard made from a grooved length of carved wood about an inch wide running the length of the cutting edge, that is held in place by a narrow piece of cloth wrapped around the blade and guard several times. This arrangement seems designed for transporting the panabas rather than using it for ceremonial or judicial purposes. Occasional wooden sheaths made of two pieces of wood held together by light rattan strips are also found. The main function of sheaths/scabbards are to facilitate transportation of the weapon. I have also heard from contacts in Mindanao that the panabas was carried into battle wrapped in cloth—however, my contacts were not Moros.

The padsumbalin panabas seems particularly well suited for combat, often being double-edged. I have a couple of these that are lighter than most other versions of the panabas.

Use of the panabas as a "mop-up" weapon has been reported, notably by Robert Cato in his book Moro Weapons, and others have made similar comments. However, I don't know of an historical reference to support that function. As you note, swords would have been equally effective. My earlier comment about its use as a "mop-up" weapon was based on these sources, but I have no hard evidence to support that use.

Ian

Noted on this, sir. One of my BangsaMoro friends- a former member of this forum, and I believe the foremost expert on PH traditional blades- has expressed doubts regarding the accuracy of Cato's information. The Moros would not readily give up information on their culture or weaponry; in effect, Mr Cato may very well have been told tall tales. I agree some panabas were built for transport, but not as battlefield weapons; rather, as intimidation tools, a sign of potency of a ranking Moro chieftain that would be transported and displayed along with his retinue of best warriors. My evidence for this are the junggayan-style barungs- yes, they were sharp and had functional scabbards, but they aren't the go-to weapons during battle; they served better as status indicator and intimidation tool. Same goes for other BangsaMoro weapons with elaborate designs- the reason for their preservation was that they were never really in the fray.

[mross]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Noted on this, sir. One of my BangsaMoro friends- a former member of this forum, and I believe the foremost expert on PH traditional blades- has expressed doubts regarding the accuracy of Cato's information. The Moros would not readily give up information on their culture or weaponry; in effect, Mr Cato may very well have been told tall tales. I agree some panabas were built for transport, but not as battlefield weapons; rather, as intimidation tools, a sign of potency of a ranking Moro chieftain that would be transported and displayed along with his retinue of best warriors. My evidence for this are the junggayan-style barungs- yes, they were sharp and had functional scabbards, but they aren't the go-to weapons during battle; they served better as status indicator and intimidation tool. Same goes for other BangsaMoro weapons with elaborate designs- the reason for their preservation was that they were never really in the fray.

Wow, could not agree more. I have often said Cato, while currently the best out there, should be taken with a grain of salt. I own many Moro weapons, the ones that are Datu class I would never think of using in a battle. While the blades are of top quality the balance is all wrong. I have weapons that I would classify as fighters. No frills, no fancy handles, just solid well balanced tools. When compared to the higher class blades, there is not comparison. To bring this back to the Panabas. My thoughts are they may have been used in battle. Better than nothing, but I would not want to be swinging a Panabas against a spear or sword. Just too slow. It would be an excellent mop up weapon or status symbol. I am in full agreement with xasterix on this.

[Battara]

Here's the difficulty: Moros more than a century ago (and anyone else then for that matter) are different than their descendants today in a different culture and usage of tools. Much has been lost even in Western generations.

Thus I would not be surprised if there is some truth in both of these views.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Battara

Here's the difficulty: Moros more than a century ago (and anyone else then for that matter) are different than their descendants today in a different culture and usage of tools. Much has been lost even in Western generations.

Thus I would not be surprised if there is some truth in both of these views.

Although I have to point out that, due to the isolation of the BangsaMoro from most outside influences and the rest of the Philippines (Luzon, Visayas), they have much better cascading of oral and written tradition regarding their culture, fighting arts, and weaponry. My BangsaMoro friends are able to differentiate the features and nuances of antique and modern weaponry, especially since they have century-old weapons in their keeping (usually family heirlooms). There is also a trend that isolated areas in the Philippines- especially those under military contention- incidentally have the most number of traditional smiths who are able to build traditional blades that are not influenced by modern trends, and are very close in design and function to their antique counterparts.

I would be willing to concede that the panabas can be considered a mop-up weapon IF the survivors were brought to the panabas (situated at camp, inside city walls, or a corner of the battlefield) for summary public execution (yet another intimidation tactic), rather than the panabas be lugged and used against the writhing survivors in the battlefield itself. It's redundant and unnecessary to use a heavy weapon as a mop-up tool, when the warriors who had just survived the battlefield can do the job more efficiently with their lighter weapons.

[kino]

Originally Posted by xasterix

One of my BangsaMoro friends- a former member of this forum, and I believe the foremost expert on PH traditional blades- has expressed doubts regarding the accuracy of Cato's information. The Moros would not readily give up information on their culture or weaponry; in effect, Mr Cato may very well have been told tall tales. I agree some panabas were built for transport, but not as battlefield weapons; rather, as intimidation tools, a sign of potency of a ranking Moro chieftain that would be transported and displayed along with his retinue of best warriors. My evidence for this are the junggayan-style barungs- yes, they were sharp and had functional scabbards, but they aren't the go-to weapons during battle; they served better as status indicator and intimidation tool. Same goes for other BangsaMoro weapons with elaborate designs- the reason for their preservation was that they were never really in the fray.

Xasterix, what are your BangsaMoro friends opinions on these type of Panabas’.
Would these type be considered battlefield weapons.
They’re nice to look at, I would like to have one but in my opinion not as intimidating as the other BangsaMoro edged weapons.

[Rick]

I think this one has seen some sort of excitement; the edge is ragged as if it was used to attack wire, and it sports a bullet wound at the wide end where the dark spot is.
The blade is quite thick where it terminates at the handle..

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Rick

I think this one has seen some sort of excitement; the edge is ragged as if it was used to attack wire, and it sports a bullet wound at the wide end where the dark spot is.
The blade is quite thick where it terminates at the handle..

I agree, that one looks like it's been through a lot.

In the absence of my main weapon, I would grab anything with an edge within my immediate vicinity.

Someone must have used this thing as a never-say-die last hurrah

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kino

Xasterix, what are your BangsaMoro friends opinions on these type of Panabas’.
Would these type be considered battlefield weapons.
They’re nice to look at, I would like to have one but in my opinion not as intimidating as the other BangsaMoro edged weapons.

Hi sir, that one is used for gardening.

Although as a Tausug friend said... It's still an object of opportunity with an edge...

[kino]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi sir, that one is used for gardening.

Although as a Tausug friend said... It's still an object of opportunity with an edge...

Thanks.
I would not have ever thought of that. Some of these are constructed elaborately. Too nice just for field work. Perhaps it's a testament to the Pandays skill.

But it makes a forminable tool. Vines, twigs and branches would be shaking like a leaf in its presence

[Spunjer]

nah, for buyo (betel nut), brah, lol. must've been owned by a high ranking datu