ethiopian sword/arab blade???

Martin Lubojacky · 27th December 2018, 07:39 PM

I am also of the opinion it is rather European blade, but it does not seem to be one of those typical custom-designed (decorated with etching "on Ethiopian requests").
The blade from Zlatoust dated 1853 could originally be a property of one of the cossacks or dragoons accompanying Russian envoys by the end of 19th century. Such blades are not common on gorades...
I saw one gorade with interesting - probably Persian or may be Turkish blade. I hope I´ll be able to post a photo later. But such combination is also not common.

TVV · 28th December 2018, 12:04 AM

I have a gorade with a Russian Zlatoust made blade, dated 1875, most probably from the M1865 officer shashka. I cannot be sure what the exact story behind these Russian blades is, but it appears to be more than just a random blade or two left there by an individual traveling to the area. Maybe some enterprising merchant brought a whole bunch of surplus blades in the early 20th century, or maybe these are part of Soviet military aid during the 30s (or later).

Back to the subject of this thread: these crescent and star symbols are obviously Muslim and I recall seeing similar markings on Yemeni mounted blades. Swords generally traveled from Ethiopia to Yemen because of the rhino hilts, but it is possible this European blade traveled in the other direction.

Teodor

Jim McDougall · 28th December 2018, 03:11 AM

It is hard to imagine exactly the dynamics of blade trade an diffusion in these regions with certainty, but there are certain factors to consider. This blade is very much like the 'shashka' type blades out of Solingen which were in some degree found in Arab blades.

These 'cosmological' markings are also typical of those found on various European blades in both talismamic themes as well as makers marks. Firms such as Schimmelbusch & Kirschbaum used these kinds of stars and comet and others used the crescent moon. These were often adopted and spuriously applied on trade blades in various entrepots receiving them.

There were also Russian blades, Caucasian blades which may have come from Armenian context into trade networks which ended up in the Red Sea. It is well known there were many Armenian merchants bringing in blades in Harar, in Abyssinia. While of course there were considerable numbers of British blades and Solingen blades imported into Abyssinia through more diplomatic channels, these 'extracirricular' products probably had considerable presence as well.

As well noted, many gurades went to Arabia, primarily San'aa and were relieved of their rhino hilts, the blades remounted or traded elsewhere.
It does not seem unusual that this type of trade blade, probably Solingen of 19th c., would end up in Abyssinian context.
Numbers of the 'nimcha' often termed 'Zanzibar' style, ended up in Yemen with blades carrying similar groupings of these spurious European type markings and date in latter 19th c.

All these factors add to the mystery and dynamics of these intriguing blades in whatever mounts they ended up in.

ariel · 28th December 2018, 02:21 PM

At the end of 19th century there was a sudden flood of Russians into Abyssinia: military men, Cossacks, intellectuals, physicians.
The point of attraction was that Abyssinian Christians were Orthodox. Russian government decided to enter Africa and to establish there not exactly a colony akin to West Europeans, but a “ brotherly” forepost. They sent medical personnel, their officers trained Abyssinian soldiers and were appointed as mid,- and high-level administrators. Pertinent to our discussion, Abyssinians were given Russian surplus weapons, including old sword blades. This is the origin of Teodor’s and my gurades.

In a way, Russian tactics and strategy in Abyssinia were identical to their later Communist assimilation of Castro’s Cuba. The locals were to remain nominally independent but fully beholden to and controlled by Russia.

The 1917 revolution put an end to Russia’s Abyssinian adventure. But in its aftermath there was a thin streak of Russian emigrees to Abyssinia, among whom BTW was Nazima Hanafi, a direct descendant of Shamil ( yes, the very same one) who converted to Orthodoxy and became one of the Grand Dames of Ethiopian beaumonde.

Currently, the only traces of Russian presence in Ethiopia are Balcha Hospital in Addis Ababa ( originally established by the Tzarist Russian Red Cross) where they still serve bliny and stuffed cabbage, and a small group of Russian women who married Ethiopian students.

Russia still conducts the same bottom-feeding attempts to influence certain pariah African countries such as Zimbabwe, Central African Republic, Sudan and Erythrea. Despite her own economical catastrophes, Russia continues to send there military advisers and private security forces and provide them with loans ( with no hope of return) to buy outdated Russian military junk, akin to the Tzarist Russia shipments of decommissioned Zlatoust saber blades. Meanwhile, China builds industrial complexes all over Africa, buys land and natural resources there and floods the entire continent with China-made cheap goods.

But at least we have Ethiopian gurades with antique Zlatoust blades, a memento of yet another Russian attempt to become a world- class empire.

Battara · 28th December 2018, 05:37 PM

Had no idea. Thanks Ariel. This explains a lot of the European blades there.

Jim McDougall · 28th December 2018, 05:45 PM

Ariel,
Thank you so much for this valuable insight, which I clearly missed in my studies on Ethiopian weapons!!

I really had no idea there were Russians in there, and I guess assumed there was so much other nationality presence that such intervention by them was not viable. Clearly they had 'their hands in the cookie jar' in many places not well known.

Here in the US, in California and Western regions all the way to Alaska they loomed large in areas regarded as French, Spanish and British it would seem much in the same manner.

I really appreciate very much these kinds of responses, which illuminate things missed by my own research and probably others as well, and give the topic the proper perspective in a generous and gracious manner. Thank you again
.

Jim

ariel · 29th December 2018, 01:11 AM

Guys,

I was given so much by the multiple Forumites over the years that even a small payback to the community is a pleasure.

Gentlemen, Please restrict your postings to the original topic. Those interested in discussing or wanting to make comments or state personal opinions on the present or possible future political climent should do so either through PM or email.

Robert

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th December 2018, 06:04 PM

Ariel we are very lucky to have a specialist in such developments of Russian expansionism and how much they were involved in that part of East Africa... Among the weapons supplied to Ethiopia there were 5000 Sabres ...and a huge load of gunpowder weapons...in the mid 1890s...and which won the first of the wars with Italy . It must be considered in the mix and blades could easily have been traded afterwards and rehilted etc.
Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Italo-Ethiopian_War and I place a few pictures here …Key to the war was the main battle of Adwa attended by a Russian contingent of about 50 cavalry and 15 Artillery Advisors including Nikolay Leontiev who became a Count see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Leontiev pictured below and a whole load of weapons including 5,000 Russian swords. A lot of damage was done by Ethiopian irregulars with spears and swords ...and of course gunpowder weapons again supplied by Russia. The question is raised as to the blades and swords used in this major battle and what transpired afterwards... as well as captured Italian weapons and swords...

Martin Lubojacky · 1st January 2019, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

....I saw one gorade with interesting - probably Persian or may be Turkish blade. I hope I´ll be able to post a photo later....

Here it is

Martin Lubojacky · 1st January 2019, 06:36 PM

I forgot to ad: The blade is cca 1 cm thick at its base, The "yelmen" part takes ca half of the total length and is sharp from both sides, The sabre is heavy and the blade is not flexible. Pronounced grooves are deep.

Richard G · 2nd January 2019, 02:50 PM

Rather unusual. What is the hilt\handle made of?
It looks like some kind of root\burr wood.
Regards
Richard

roanoa · 2nd January 2019, 03:14 PM

The gorade is a Solingen blade. It appears on Julius Voos catalogue of Abyssinian blades as #6. I have seen 6 so far. All of them are plain, with the exception of the one I have in my collection, which has an inscription in Amharic naming Count Leontieff as owner.

ariel · 2nd January 2019, 09:55 PM

Some of German blades have a mark G.G.

My Alzheimer’s is getting worse: forgot the meaning of this abbreviation.

Can you help?

ariel · 2nd January 2019, 09:58 PM

Re. Colored handle: not plastic, I presume?

As to Leontieff’s gurade: outstanding find!

TVV · 2nd January 2019, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Some of German blades have a mark G.G.

My Alzheimer’s is getting worse: forgot the meaning of this abbreviation.

Can you help?

Gesetzlich Geschutzt, i.e. "Protected by Law", as in a trade mark? Sorry, I have no umlauts on my keyboard.

28th December 2018, 02:21 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	At the end of 19th century there was a sudden flood of Russians into Abyssinia: military men, Cossacks, intellectuals, physicians. The point of attraction was that Abyssinian Christians were Orthodox. Russian government decided to enter Africa and to establish there not exactly a colony akin to West Europeans, but a “ brotherly” forepost. They sent medical personnel, their officers trained Abyssinian soldiers and were appointed as mid,- and high-level administrators. Pertinent to our discussion, Abyssinians were given Russian surplus weapons, including old sword blades. This is the origin of Teodor’s and my gurades. In a way, Russian tactics and strategy in Abyssinia were identical to their later Communist assimilation of Castro’s Cuba. The locals were to remain nominally independent but fully beholden to and controlled by Russia. The 1917 revolution put an end to Russia’s Abyssinian adventure. But in its aftermath there was a thin streak of Russian emigrees to Abyssinia, among whom BTW was Nazima Hanafi, a direct descendant of Shamil ( yes, the very same one) who converted to Orthodoxy and became one of the Grand Dames of Ethiopian beaumonde. Currently, the only traces of Russian presence in Ethiopia are Balcha Hospital in Addis Ababa ( originally established by the Tzarist Russian Red Cross) where they still serve bliny and stuffed cabbage, and a small group of Russian women who married Ethiopian students. Russia still conducts the same bottom-feeding attempts to influence certain pariah African countries such as Zimbabwe, Central African Republic, Sudan and Erythrea. Despite her own economical catastrophes, Russia continues to send there military advisers and private security forces and provide them with loans ( with no hope of return) to buy outdated Russian military junk, akin to the Tzarist Russia shipments of decommissioned Zlatoust saber blades. Meanwhile, China builds industrial complexes all over Africa, buys land and natural resources there and floods the entire continent with China-made cheap goods. But at least we have Ethiopian gurades with antique Zlatoust blades, a memento of yet another Russian attempt to become a world- class empire. Last edited by ariel; 28th December 2018 at 03:42 PM.

29th December 2018, 01:11 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Guys, I was given so much by the multiple Forumites over the years that even a small payback to the community is a pleasure. Gentlemen, Please restrict your postings to the original topic. Those interested in discussing or wanting to make comments or state personal opinions on the present or possible future political climent should do so either through PM or email. Robert Last edited by Robert; 30th December 2018 at 06:30 AM.

29th December 2018, 06:04 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Ariel we are very lucky to have a specialist in such developments of Russian expansionism and how much they were involved in that part of East Africa... Among the weapons supplied to Ethiopia there were 5000 Sabres ...and a huge load of gunpowder weapons...in the mid 1890s...and which won the first of the wars with Italy . It must be considered in the mix and blades could easily have been traded afterwards and rehilted etc. Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Italo-Ethiopian_War and I place a few pictures here …Key to the war was the main battle of Adwa attended by a Russian contingent of about 50 cavalry and 15 Artillery Advisors including Nikolay Leontiev who became a Count see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Leontiev pictured below and a whole load of weapons including 5,000 Russian swords. A lot of damage was done by Ethiopian irregulars with spears and swords ...and of course gunpowder weapons again supplied by Russia. The question is raised as to the blades and swords used in this major battle and what transpired afterwards... as well as captured Italian weapons and swords... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 29th December 2018 at 06:17 PM.

2nd January 2019, 03:14 PM	#12
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	The gorade is a Solingen blade. It appears on Julius Voos catalogue of Abyssinian blades as #6. I have seen 6 so far. All of them are plain, with the exception of the one I have in my collection, which has an inscription in Amharic naming Count Leontieff as owner. Attached Images

27th December 2018, 07:39 PM	#1
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	I am also of the opinion it is rather European blade, but it does not seem to be one of those typical custom-designed (decorated with etching "on Ethiopian requests"). The blade from Zlatoust dated 1853 could originally be a property of one of the cossacks or dragoons accompanying Russian envoys by the end of 19th century. Such blades are not common on gorades... I saw one gorade with interesting - probably Persian or may be Turkish blade. I hope I´ll be able to post a photo later. But such combination is also not common.

28th December 2018, 12:04 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	I have a gorade with a Russian Zlatoust made blade, dated 1875, most probably from the M1865 officer shashka. I cannot be sure what the exact story behind these Russian blades is, but it appears to be more than just a random blade or two left there by an individual traveling to the area. Maybe some enterprising merchant brought a whole bunch of surplus blades in the early 20th century, or maybe these are part of Soviet military aid during the 30s (or later). Back to the subject of this thread: these crescent and star symbols are obviously Muslim and I recall seeing similar markings on Yemeni mounted blades. Swords generally traveled from Ethiopia to Yemen because of the rhino hilts, but it is possible this European blade traveled in the other direction. Teodor

28th December 2018, 03:11 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	It is hard to imagine exactly the dynamics of blade trade an diffusion in these regions with certainty, but there are certain factors to consider. This blade is very much like the 'shashka' type blades out of Solingen which were in some degree found in Arab blades. These 'cosmological' markings are also typical of those found on various European blades in both talismamic themes as well as makers marks. Firms such as Schimmelbusch & Kirschbaum used these kinds of stars and comet and others used the crescent moon. These were often adopted and spuriously applied on trade blades in various entrepots receiving them. There were also Russian blades, Caucasian blades which may have come from Armenian context into trade networks which ended up in the Red Sea. It is well known there were many Armenian merchants bringing in blades in Harar, in Abyssinia. While of course there were considerable numbers of British blades and Solingen blades imported into Abyssinia through more diplomatic channels, these 'extracirricular' products probably had considerable presence as well. As well noted, many gurades went to Arabia, primarily San'aa and were relieved of their rhino hilts, the blades remounted or traded elsewhere. It does not seem unusual that this type of trade blade, probably Solingen of 19th c., would end up in Abyssinian context. Numbers of the 'nimcha' often termed 'Zanzibar' style, ended up in Yemen with blades carrying similar groupings of these spurious European type markings and date in latter 19th c. All these factors add to the mystery and dynamics of these intriguing blades in whatever mounts they ended up in.

28th December 2018, 05:37 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Had no idea. Thanks Ariel. This explains a lot of the European blades there.

28th December 2018, 05:45 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Ariel, Thank you so much for this valuable insight, which I clearly missed in my studies on Ethiopian weapons!! I really had no idea there were Russians in there, and I guess assumed there was so much other nationality presence that such intervention by them was not viable. Clearly they had 'their hands in the cookie jar' in many places not well known. Here in the US, in California and Western regions all the way to Alaska they loomed large in areas regarded as French, Spanish and British it would seem much in the same manner. I really appreciate very much these kinds of responses, which illuminate things missed by my own research and probably others as well, and give the topic the proper perspective in a generous and gracious manner. Thank you again . Jim

1st January 2019, 06:36 PM	#10
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	I forgot to ad: The blade is cca 1 cm thick at its base, The "yelmen" part takes ca half of the total length and is sharp from both sides, The sabre is heavy and the blade is not flexible. Pronounced grooves are deep.

2nd January 2019, 02:50 PM	#11
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 411	Rather unusual. What is the hilt\handle made of? It looks like some kind of root\burr wood. Regards Richard

2nd January 2019, 09:55 PM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Some of German blades have a mark G.G. My Alzheimer’s is getting worse: forgot the meaning of this abbreviation. Can you help?

2nd January 2019, 09:58 PM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Re. Colored handle: not plastic, I presume? As to Leontieff’s gurade: outstanding find!