Old Indian Toradar/Identification???

Montagnard · 21st December 2018, 05:58 PM

Hi Stu,

nice collection!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=232581

"On the one hand we see a gun often encountered in South India with rattan bindings that are also abundant there...
On the other hand such stock pattern might have been potentially seen in Afghanistan ( but the evidence is extremely weak) and rattan bindings were seen on a single specimen ( jezail)."

kahnjar1 · 22nd December 2018, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montagnard

Hi Stu,

nice collection!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=232581

"On the one hand we see a gun often encountered in South India with rattan bindings that are also abundant there...
On the other hand such stock pattern might have been potentially seen in Afghanistan ( but the evidence is extremely weak) and rattan bindings were seen on a single specimen ( jezail)."

Hi Montagnard,
Thank you for the kind comments.
As you will see from the thread you link to, opinions do differ but also remember that India and Afghanistan are very close geographicaly and there would be cross border "trade" going on, so parts would very likely have been combined to create a gun.
I still lean towards Afghanistan for your matchlock based on the stock shape, and I note that the same conclusion was reached in the linked thread.
Either way it can reasonably be said that your gun could be called "Indo Afghani"

Stu

Montagnard · 22nd December 2018, 09:56 AM

D' Accord!
Indo-Afghani sounds good to me.

Happy holidays!
Montagnard

rickystl · 22nd December 2018, 03:25 PM

Hi Montagnard. And welcome to the Forum.

That's an interesting matchlock. I agree with Stu's observations.

The barrel looks typical of what you would see from Northern India with the swelled breech and plain, notched rear sight. Also the swell and tulip type decoration at the muzzle end.

Along with Stu's comments on the stock, a couple other observations: The top wood section covering the serpentine being a seperate piece with two wood pegs (or possibly nails in this case) and the flats filed at the wrist area are both typical of Indian construction. It's only the butt stock design that is more typical of Afghani guns.

As Stu mentions, the barrel bands used on these guns can be rattan, leather, brass, iron, or silver. The intentional notch seems too far rearward for the use of a bi-pod. So I'm thinking it may have been done to accomodate the rear portion of a simple tie-on type sling.

Overall, the gun looks to have been made by an Indian craftsman for possibly an Afghan customer at low cost using a recycled barrel from a Torador musket, and whatever other material was locally available.

If you plan on restoring the gun, replacing the barrel bands with dark brown leather might look good in this case if rattan not available.

Rick

21st December 2018, 05:58 PM	#1
Montagnard Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7	Found a very similar matchlock! Hi Stu, nice collection! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=232581 "On the one hand we see a gun often encountered in South India with rattan bindings that are also abundant there... On the other hand such stock pattern might have been potentially seen in Afghanistan ( but the evidence is extremely weak) and rattan bindings were seen on a single specimen ( jezail)."

22nd December 2018, 09:56 AM	#3
Montagnard Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7	D' Accord! Indo-Afghani sounds good to me. Happy holidays! Montagnard

22nd December 2018, 03:25 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Montagnard. And welcome to the Forum. That's an interesting matchlock. I agree with Stu's observations. The barrel looks typical of what you would see from Northern India with the swelled breech and plain, notched rear sight. Also the swell and tulip type decoration at the muzzle end. Along with Stu's comments on the stock, a couple other observations: The top wood section covering the serpentine being a seperate piece with two wood pegs (or possibly nails in this case) and the flats filed at the wrist area are both typical of Indian construction. It's only the butt stock design that is more typical of Afghani guns. As Stu mentions, the barrel bands used on these guns can be rattan, leather, brass, iron, or silver. The intentional notch seems too far rearward for the use of a bi-pod. So I'm thinking it may have been done to accomodate the rear portion of a simple tie-on type sling. Overall, the gun looks to have been made by an Indian craftsman for possibly an Afghan customer at low cost using a recycled barrel from a Torador musket, and whatever other material was locally available. If you plan on restoring the gun, replacing the barrel bands with dark brown leather might look good in this case if rattan not available. Rick