Help to identifying a Wilkinson London blade

MacCathain · 7th December 2018, 06:59 PM

I think it is a police sword. The stamp was used by Wilkinson on trooper's and OR's weapons from at least the mid-1800s, and I think the number of lobes on the grip is simply due to manufacturers' variations.

Check out this web site -- http://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org..../police_swords -- and scroll down to the 9th photo on the home page where you'll find another 8-lobe example, the caption for which reads: "19th Century British Police Cutlass Sword 74cm long overall with a 61cm long curved blade." The measurements fit well with your example.

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2018, 07:44 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12612

Agree totally with MacCathain , this is a British constabulary hanger which is probably from 1880s. The book title listed in the linked thread from 2010 sounds promising:
"Those Entrusted with Arms: A History of Police, Post, Customs and Private Use of Weapons in Britain" by Frederick Wilkinson.

Also as noted in my post there:
"William Parker and Parker Field, Gunmakers" by Frederick Wilkinson in 'Arms & Armor Annual" (ed. Robert Held, 1973, pp.275-282) is most helpful.

While civilian weapons, these are very esoteric items in the collecting community and intriguing elements in the transition to civilian police forces from military patrols. While many police arms were made by the Parker firm noted, it would seem this was a private contract with Wilkinson probably in this later period. In earlier times with the Wilkinson firm they were primarily engaged in supplying officers swords, and moved into other ranks and private swords later in the century.

While later in the century, this example has a very nice blade and is an item from a very specialized field of collecting, also from most interesting times in these areas of London.

Belgian1 · 8th December 2018, 09:39 AM

Hello Mccathain, Hello Jim, Hello to everyone and thank you for your interventions,

I knew the excellent links to which you refer me and thank you.

You will think that I am "stubborn" but I still have the idea that it is a hanger of the early nineteenth of the Georgian period by the James Wilkinson Workshop. But I will try to explain my stubbornness ;-) which is probably not without interest and perhaps deserves to be dug ... I can not explain the mark "Wilkinson London" which should logically correspond to the beginning of the resumption of the Workshop of Nock in London Withechapel by his son-in-law James Wilkinson in 1804. I think it is proved that James Wilkinson made very early bayonets and why not maybe some sabers but the markings of this time are little hardly documented or simply not at all for lack of surviving material. It is from the arrival in the company of his son Henry Wilkinson, in 1824, that the known markings of this period are "Wilkinson & Son" then "Wilkinson & Co" but that you know it perfectly.
I can not explain that the period of activity of Henry Wilkinson, could manufacture blades for the police or the troop with a different marking. But also, if these hanger blades had a different marking and after 1844, why do not they wear the stamp of quality so important for Wilkinson House and guaranteeing sufficient strength for the fight, which contributed to its success in the world. If so and to this day, I am not aware of this marking "Wilkinson London" mid or late nineteenth, which seems too simple and '' pseudo craft '' for an Armorer as important using the most machines perfected for the time and the image of its blade as a guarantee of quality and differentiation. But also I would like to add without risking you from falling asleep by reading me, that the inscription "Wilkinson London" is struck and not engraved, it still makes me think that it is a pre- industrial, so certainly before the move of Henry Wilkinson to '' Pall Mall '' in 1824.
So at my idea, either it's a forerunner of the James Wilkinson period before 1824, or it's a fake Wilkinson brand but on a very high quality blade for the period.
Now I tThank you for reading me if you have reached the end

.. and I let you take your minds

and still hope to benefit from your constructive advice.
PS: If you have a photo of this type of mark from Wilkinson with a dating, I'll be happy to see it because I was unable to find that one

Kind regards from Belgium
Fabrice

8th December 2018, 09:39 AM	#3
Belgian1 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Belgium Posts: 52	Wilkinson "precursor" hanger blade ???? Hello Mccathain, Hello Jim, Hello to everyone and thank you for your interventions, I knew the excellent links to which you refer me and thank you. You will think that I am "stubborn" but I still have the idea that it is a hanger of the early nineteenth of the Georgian period by the James Wilkinson Workshop. But I will try to explain my stubbornness ;-) which is probably not without interest and perhaps deserves to be dug ... I can not explain the mark "Wilkinson London" which should logically correspond to the beginning of the resumption of the Workshop of Nock in London Withechapel by his son-in-law James Wilkinson in 1804. I think it is proved that James Wilkinson made very early bayonets and why not maybe some sabers but the markings of this time are little hardly documented or simply not at all for lack of surviving material. It is from the arrival in the company of his son Henry Wilkinson, in 1824, that the known markings of this period are "Wilkinson & Son" then "Wilkinson & Co" but that you know it perfectly. I can not explain that the period of activity of Henry Wilkinson, could manufacture blades for the police or the troop with a different marking. But also, if these hanger blades had a different marking and after 1844, why do not they wear the stamp of quality so important for Wilkinson House and guaranteeing sufficient strength for the fight, which contributed to its success in the world. If so and to this day, I am not aware of this marking "Wilkinson London" mid or late nineteenth, which seems too simple and '' pseudo craft '' for an Armorer as important using the most machines perfected for the time and the image of its blade as a guarantee of quality and differentiation. But also I would like to add without risking you from falling asleep by reading me, that the inscription "Wilkinson London" is struck and not engraved, it still makes me think that it is a pre- industrial, so certainly before the move of Henry Wilkinson to '' Pall Mall '' in 1824. So at my idea, either it's a forerunner of the James Wilkinson period before 1824, or it's a fake Wilkinson brand but on a very high quality blade for the period. Now I tThank you for reading me if you have reached the end .. and I let you take your minds and still hope to benefit from your constructive advice. PS: If you have a photo of this type of mark from Wilkinson with a dating, I'll be happy to see it because I was unable to find that one Kind regards from Belgium Fabrice

7th December 2018, 06:59 PM	#1
MacCathain Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 67	I think it is a police sword. The stamp was used by Wilkinson on trooper's and OR's weapons from at least the mid-1800s, and I think the number of lobes on the grip is simply due to manufacturers' variations. Check out this web site -- http://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org..../police_swords -- and scroll down to the 9th photo on the home page where you'll find another 8-lobe example, the caption for which reads: "19th Century British Police Cutlass Sword 74cm long overall with a 61cm long curved blade." The measurements fit well with your example.

7th December 2018, 07:44 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12612 Agree totally with MacCathain , this is a British constabulary hanger which is probably from 1880s. The book title listed in the linked thread from 2010 sounds promising: "Those Entrusted with Arms: A History of Police, Post, Customs and Private Use of Weapons in Britain" by Frederick Wilkinson. Also as noted in my post there: "William Parker and Parker Field, Gunmakers" by Frederick Wilkinson in 'Arms & Armor Annual" (ed. Robert Held, 1973, pp.275-282) is most helpful. While civilian weapons, these are very esoteric items in the collecting community and intriguing elements in the transition to civilian police forces from military patrols. While many police arms were made by the Parker firm noted, it would seem this was a private contract with Wilkinson probably in this later period. In earlier times with the Wilkinson firm they were primarily engaged in supplying officers swords, and moved into other ranks and private swords later in the century. While later in the century, this example has a very nice blade and is an item from a very specialized field of collecting, also from most interesting times in these areas of London.