Lionhilt Broadsword 17th Century?

AHorsa · 26th November 2018, 12:10 PM

Thank you gentlemen.

I cleaned it with a small wire brush (for gimlets). Luckily the rust or patina was thick but very easy to remove. On other items it didn´t work with that method.

Intererstingly there are remains of glasslike black material in some of the carves, which makes me think that maybe the structure was elaborated with a Niello technique.

Best regards
Andreas

AHorsa · 26th April 2022, 09:16 PM

Dear all,

allow me to fetch up this old thread. It´s now nearly 10 Years I own this piece and it still won´t let me go. From time to time I do a bit of research on it and my biggest dream is to find a painting showing it´s owner with the sword

I know it is very very unlikely, but I am sure such a painting once existed. The question is: did it survive and is it listed somewhere...

But anyway: I just stumbled over a picture I saved as a reference years ago with the comment "Sweden, 1660-90". I´ve found several swords with similar lion cross-guard, many of them indicates the Netherlands as origin but there are also pieces with other provenience. But this is the first time I found this wave-like decorations on the guards. Also the tool used to decorate the stylized head seems to be similar to the one used to form the lions coat. Maybe this can be a another hint to its origin.
Sadly I can´t remember where I saved it from, only that it was a (Swedish?) museums online gallery without more information.

Does anyone of you know similar examples?

Kind regards
Andreas

Victrix · 1st May 2022, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Dear all,

allow me to fetch up this old thread. It´s now nearly 10 Years I own this piece and it still won´t let me go. From time to time I do a bit of research on it and my biggest dream is to find a painting showing it´s owner with the sword

I know it is very very unlikely, but I am sure such a painting once existed. The question is: did it survive and is it listed somewhere...

But anyway: I just stumbled over a picture I saved as a reference years ago with the comment "Sweden, 1660-90". I´ve found several swords with similar lion cross-guard, many of them indicates the Netherlands as origin but there are also pieces with other provenience. But this is the first time I found this wave-like decorations on the guards. Also the tool used to decorate the stylized head seems to be similar to the one used to form the lions coat. Maybe this can be a another hint to its origin.
Sadly I can´t remember where I saved it from, only that it was a (Swedish?) museums online gallery without more information.

Does anyone of you know similar examples?

Kind regards
Andreas

Not sure how ”Swedish” this piece could be. The lion as an animal was frequently used to represent the Kingdom of Sweden. Swords were mostly imported by Sweden from Netherlands and Germany until domestic manufacturing was established in Vira bruk, which had formal monopoly rights in military sword blade production 1635-1775. The smiths were imported from Germany like Caspar Kohl, Hans Danckwardt, Jurgen Ollich and Johan Bertram. There was also some sword production in Arboga, Norrköping, and Kvarnbacka-Wedevåg. These swords tended to be quite simple in design but functional. So if your sword was used in Sweden I guess it would have been made in Netherlands or Germany and imported.

AHorsa · 5th May 2022, 01:55 PM

Dear Victrix,

thank you very much for your important information on Swedish sword production! These information and the fact that it was found in Northern Germany make it indeed not so likely, that it is a Swedish piece. But it underlines the good possibility to be Dutch.

Kind regards
Andreas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Not sure how ”Swedish” this piece could be. The lion as an animal was frequently used to represent the Kingdom of Sweden. Swords were mostly imported by Sweden from Netherlands and Germany until domestic manufacturing was established in Vira bruk, which had formal monopoly rights in military sword blade production 1635-1775. The smiths were imported from Germany like Caspar Kohl, Hans Danckwardt, Jurgen Ollich and Johan Bertram. There was also some sword production in Arboga, Norrköping, and Kvarnbacka-Wedevåg. These swords tended to be quite simple in design but functional. So if your sword was used in Sweden I guess it would have been made in Netherlands or Germany and imported.

kronckew · 5th May 2022, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

... But it underlines the good possibility to be Dutch. ...

The Blade, at least, looks Dutch from the two tulips stamp. The more I look, the more tulipy the flowers look.

AHorsa · 6th May 2022, 05:50 AM

That´s a pretty interesting point! I did never pay attention to the form of the flower. Just looked at it as a flower pot mark. It indeed looks pretty much like the flower pot is filled with tulips! On the other hand the running wolf mark is mostly attributed to Solingen...

kronckew · 6th May 2022, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

That´s a pretty interesting point! I did never pay attention to the form of the flower. Just looked at it as a flower pot mark. It indeed looks pretty much like the flower pot is filled with tulips! On the other hand the running wolf mark is mostly attributed to Solingen...

A Photo of the wolf would be nice.

26th April 2022, 09:16 PM	#2
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 375	Dear all, allow me to fetch up this old thread. It´s now nearly 10 Years I own this piece and it still won´t let me go. From time to time I do a bit of research on it and my biggest dream is to find a painting showing it´s owner with the sword I know it is very very unlikely, but I am sure such a painting once existed. The question is: did it survive and is it listed somewhere... But anyway: I just stumbled over a picture I saved as a reference years ago with the comment "Sweden, 1660-90". I´ve found several swords with similar lion cross-guard, many of them indicates the Netherlands as origin but there are also pieces with other provenience. But this is the first time I found this wave-like decorations on the guards. Also the tool used to decorate the stylized head seems to be similar to the one used to form the lions coat. Maybe this can be a another hint to its origin. Sadly I can´t remember where I saved it from, only that it was a (Swedish?) museums online gallery without more information. Does anyone of you know similar examples? Kind regards Andreas Attached Images

26th November 2018, 12:10 PM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 375	Thank you gentlemen. I cleaned it with a small wire brush (for gimlets). Luckily the rust or patina was thick but very easy to remove. On other items it didn´t work with that method. Intererstingly there are remains of glasslike black material in some of the carves, which makes me think that maybe the structure was elaborated with a Niello technique. Best regards Andreas

6th May 2022, 05:50 AM	#6
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 375	That´s a pretty interesting point! I did never pay attention to the form of the flower. Just looked at it as a flower pot mark. It indeed looks pretty much like the flower pot is filled with tulips! On the other hand the running wolf mark is mostly attributed to Solingen...