Intriguing British sword to identify

Jim McDougall · 20th November 2018, 06:26 PM

Well handled Fernando. So is the item now open to discussion as no comments have been issued thus far, or does it remain restricted?

fernando · 20th November 2018, 06:52 PM

No restrictions at all, Jim !
... And you may as well be the first one to post your comments

.

Bryce · 20th November 2018, 09:41 PM

G'day Fabrice,

My main area of interest is British swords of the Napoleonic Period, so I am no expert on these earlier swords, but I think you are on the right track. The overall look is of a slot hilt hanger, popular around the American Revolutionary War Period, but the blade profile is not typical for this period and looks a little later. The guard is as you noted very similar to that found on 1803 infantry officer swords. This sword does seem to be something along the evolutionary line that led to the 1803 pattern infantry officer's sabre, maybe circa 1780- 1790?

Cheers,

Bryce

Jim McDougall · 21st November 2018, 12:29 AM

Totally in accord with Bryce's assessment, the guard has the character of the four slot guards of mid 18th through 1780s, as well as the tall pommel type. The brass and look of the guard with almost a ladder like effect seems in keeping with the 1803.
The blade is unusual indeed but seems reprofiled, and it seems flank company blades were sometimes deeply parabolic and had sharp points like this.

M ELEY · 21st November 2018, 03:38 AM

A very nice sword from my favorite period. Nothing to add from what others have said. The drilled hole and ring near the urn pommel was popular around 1795-ish, but as this decoration (the ring held a sword knot) was often added later to older swords, that doesn't necessarily narrow down the date.

Belgian1 · 21st November 2018, 10:02 AM

Hello everyone,
Thank you for your opinions and the valuable details that accompany them. I was thinking of an early sword of flank officers with a blade for close combat. The details you give, reassure me and now, just like you, I think efectively it can be a late 18th sword for Flank Officers... I love this type of sword, I already have 3 and I do not get tired of watching them, keeping them and trying to collect them.
I think I won the auction and I will soon put some more photos of the guard that seems very interesting for perhaps, having inspired that of Model 1803, I say maybe... but it seems to be a small but nice part of British military history

Thanks again to all of you

Fabrice the Belgian ;-)

Jim McDougall · 21st November 2018, 12:57 PM

I do hope you did win this most interesting sword Fabrice, and very much look forward to examining it further once in your hands!
It is very much appreciated when members acquire a new addition to their collections and share them here with everyone. While admiring the piece we can all learn together from its unique features and character.

I think the consensus is that this sabre is most likely something for a flank company officer, and seems to perhaps have had a continued life beyond its original use. Hopefully we will be able to examine the blade more to see if that very sharp point is its original contour or if it is a reprofiled sabre blade with the more conventional radiused point.

It would be interesting to learn more on just how flank company officers actually used these sabres, and why the very sharp point was seemingly so much preferred. Were flank company officers mounted ?

Looking forward to more pictures and examination, and would very much like to know more on the officers of these flank companies from those more involved in the study of these units.

21st November 2018, 12:57 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,488	I do hope you did win this most interesting sword Fabrice, and very much look forward to examining it further once in your hands! It is very much appreciated when members acquire a new addition to their collections and share them here with everyone. While admiring the piece we can all learn together from its unique features and character. I think the consensus is that this sabre is most likely something for a flank company officer, and seems to perhaps have had a continued life beyond its original use. Hopefully we will be able to examine the blade more to see if that very sharp point is its original contour or if it is a reprofiled sabre blade with the more conventional radiused point. It would be interesting to learn more on just how flank company officers actually used these sabres, and why the very sharp point was seemingly so much preferred. Were flank company officers mounted ? Looking forward to more pictures and examination, and would very much like to know more on the officers of these flank companies from those more involved in the study of these units. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 21st November 2018 at 02:17 PM.

20th November 2018, 06:26 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,488	Well handled Fernando. So is the item now open to discussion as no comments have been issued thus far, or does it remain restricted?

20th November 2018, 06:52 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	No restrictions at all, Jim ! ... And you may as well be the first one to post your comments .

20th November 2018, 09:41 PM	#3
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 189	G'day Fabrice, My main area of interest is British swords of the Napoleonic Period, so I am no expert on these earlier swords, but I think you are on the right track. The overall look is of a slot hilt hanger, popular around the American Revolutionary War Period, but the blade profile is not typical for this period and looks a little later. The guard is as you noted very similar to that found on 1803 infantry officer swords. This sword does seem to be something along the evolutionary line that led to the 1803 pattern infantry officer's sabre, maybe circa 1780- 1790? Cheers, Bryce

21st November 2018, 12:29 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,488	Totally in accord with Bryce's assessment, the guard has the character of the four slot guards of mid 18th through 1780s, as well as the tall pommel type. The brass and look of the guard with almost a ladder like effect seems in keeping with the 1803. The blade is unusual indeed but seems reprofiled, and it seems flank company blades were sometimes deeply parabolic and had sharp points like this.

21st November 2018, 03:38 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	A very nice sword from my favorite period. Nothing to add from what others have said. The drilled hole and ring near the urn pommel was popular around 1795-ish, but as this decoration (the ring held a sword knot) was often added later to older swords, that doesn't necessarily narrow down the date.

21st November 2018, 10:02 AM	#6
Belgian1 Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Belgium Posts: 52	Hello everyone, Thank you for your opinions and the valuable details that accompany them. I was thinking of an early sword of flank officers with a blade for close combat. The details you give, reassure me and now, just like you, I think efectively it can be a late 18th sword for Flank Officers... I love this type of sword, I already have 3 and I do not get tired of watching them, keeping them and trying to collect them. I think I won the auction and I will soon put some more photos of the guard that seems very interesting for perhaps, having inspired that of Model 1803, I say maybe... but it seems to be a small but nice part of British military history Thanks again to all of you Fabrice the Belgian ;-)