Interesting blade industry

ariel · 9th April 2006, 07:31 PM

I have a question; which one of us would save money to buy a modern-made, contemporary wootz, fully authentic, museum quality replica of a Sossun Patta for about the same price as the real one?
On so many occasions we have engaged here in elaborate arguments whether some sword on e-bay is real or renovated and why we would not touch a particular one because of a sneaking suspicion of it's less than full authenticity. If that's the way we feel, why encourage manufacture of even more of those? Because they will be cheaper? The master will still have to spend a lot of time and effort crafting a sword that is authentic in every detail and adheres to the strictest traditional ways. This will cost money. Perhaps, somewhat less, but why buy a copy when the original costs not much more?
How many collect modern-made Japanese swords ( and here is an area where craftsmanship is at its highest)?

Tim Simmons · 9th April 2006, 07:56 PM

I just do not know, there's naught as queer as folk, as they say up north.

Emanuel · 10th April 2006, 03:54 AM

Hello Ariel and Tim,
It is the same question with buying expensive art as with buying weapons no? Keeping the craft/culture/way-of-life alive.

Please forgive this impetuous youth, but this topic gets him passionate:

Emanuel · 10th April 2006, 04:10 AM

Does one buy these weapons purely for their craftsmanship or for their historical, esoteric value? I like to buy and collect ethnographic swords and daggers because they have had a full life as a weapon and as such have affected the course of history. They mean something to me. At the same time I can appreciate a new finely made wootz sword or a perfect japanese blade.
Same with keris. I love keris intended as keris with all their cultural significances, but I am also immensely attracted to the new beautifully crafted examples with gorgeous pamor, purely for their craftmanship value. In the end -money no object- I would pay for both meaning and beauty, with preference to the former.
A long time ago I said that new swords will never be antiques as they were made with no practical value. But if I go somewhere in the world and an old man with gnarled hands crafts me a weapon putting all his cultural baggage into it, it will mean something to me. He will have crafted a weapon in every sense of the word as his ancestors did. I will have gained some knowledge about his culture that I could not get otherwise. I think this is the only purpose left for such objects. They are obsolete in every way except culturally/historically...except in some places...
I recently saw a news report on a dam in some part of Africa, and a Touareg guide was being interviewed. He still proudly wore his beautiful takouba and I doubt it was for the cameras. People still use these weapons these days.

Perhaps somewhere in Wazirabad an old man looked at the cheap trinkets from the factory and thought "My ancestors and I used to make something infinitely better than this high-tech crap" This is worth preserving I think.

9th April 2006, 07:31 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have a question; which one of us would save money to buy a modern-made, contemporary wootz, fully authentic, museum quality replica of a Sossun Patta for about the same price as the real one? On so many occasions we have engaged here in elaborate arguments whether some sword on e-bay is real or renovated and why we would not touch a particular one because of a sneaking suspicion of it's less than full authenticity. If that's the way we feel, why encourage manufacture of even more of those? Because they will be cheaper? The master will still have to spend a lot of time and effort crafting a sword that is authentic in every detail and adheres to the strictest traditional ways. This will cost money. Perhaps, somewhat less, but why buy a copy when the original costs not much more? How many collect modern-made Japanese swords ( and here is an area where craftsmanship is at its highest)? Last edited by ariel; 9th April 2006 at 07:48 PM.

10th April 2006, 04:10 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	A niche market for those who care Does one buy these weapons purely for their craftsmanship or for their historical, esoteric value? I like to buy and collect ethnographic swords and daggers because they have had a full life as a weapon and as such have affected the course of history. They mean something to me. At the same time I can appreciate a new finely made wootz sword or a perfect japanese blade. Same with keris. I love keris intended as keris with all their cultural significances, but I am also immensely attracted to the new beautifully crafted examples with gorgeous pamor, purely for their craftmanship value. In the end -money no object- I would pay for both meaning and beauty, with preference to the former. A long time ago I said that new swords will never be antiques as they were made with no practical value. But if I go somewhere in the world and an old man with gnarled hands crafts me a weapon putting all his cultural baggage into it, it will mean something to me. He will have crafted a weapon in every sense of the word as his ancestors did. I will have gained some knowledge about his culture that I could not get otherwise. I think this is the only purpose left for such objects. They are obsolete in every way except culturally/historically...except in some places... I recently saw a news report on a dam in some part of Africa, and a Touareg guide was being interviewed. He still proudly wore his beautiful takouba and I doubt it was for the cameras. People still use these weapons these days. Perhaps somewhere in Wazirabad an old man looked at the cheap trinkets from the factory and thought "My ancestors and I used to make something infinitely better than this high-tech crap" This is worth preserving I think.

9th April 2006, 07:56 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,890	I just do not know, there's naught as queer as folk, as they say up north.

10th April 2006, 03:54 AM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello Ariel and Tim, It is the same question with buying expensive art as with buying weapons no? Keeping the craft/culture/way-of-life alive. Please forgive this impetuous youth, but this topic gets him passionate: