Identify saber

fernando · 4th November 2018, 10:58 AM

Bruno, do i recall correctly in that you told me you have a copy of AS ARMAS E OS BARÕES by Eduardo Nobre?
If you hit page 121 you will see two sabres in that the hilts visibly resemble the example you posted. Characteristic of Portuguese light cavalry, as per 1806 regulation.
The absence of a prominent pommel is a revealing detail. So is the shape of the langets, an orientalist design bringing memories of Moorish influence. And i wouldn't be surprised that the tang end is screwed to the hilt dome and not peened.
Blades in these swords were sometimes bent to an exagerated point (so called parabolic), a typical period show off fashion, like IN HERE.

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fernando · 4th November 2018, 12:14 PM

A "De Luxe" version of the 1806 Uniform Plan (as it was called) would be this example, provenant of the House of Marquis de Fronteira.The scabbard is silver, with a textile & gold knot strap and tassel. The well bent blade with traces of having been silver plated, with three fullers as from the second quarter. The hilt is in silver, with an internal riveted finger guard. The grip is ebony, with braided silver wire.
(Courtesy Paço Ducal de Vila Viçosa)

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kronckew · 4th November 2018, 12:39 PM

The top sword in Fernando's post 4 looks like a match. I think we have a winner!

fernando · 4th November 2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

The top sword in Fernando's post 4 looks like a match. I think we have a winner!

And the prize is ... a saucer of barnacles ... and a pint of bitter

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ariel · 4th November 2018, 01:48 PM

Fernando,
Is it the photograph, or is this Portuguese blade sharpened only at its distal half?

fernando · 4th November 2018, 02:49 PM

Which one you mean, Ariel; the one in post #5 ?
The catalogue mentions "de um só gume e cota", roughly translating to "one only edge and back". What you would interpreter as single edged; in all its distance, it must be.

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2018, 03:24 PM

Wayne, brilliantly summarized notes on the Indian cavalry swords! a field of study which still often remains extremely arcane in the scope of military swords.
Which brings me to an even more arcane category of cavalry swords, which are those of Portugal. Perfect match of Bruno's sabre to this Portuguese example! While I have known of the Portuguese fashioning examples after the British model 1796 sabres, I had no idea of these intriguing designs in the langets.
My admittedly free association comparison to Indian langets on Indian tulwars suggested possible EIC connection based on other instances I had mentioned, but this specific match to the Portuguese sword would appear irrefutable, and delightfully so.

Thank you guys...…...discussions are the VERY best when something new is learned, and best of all, shared.

4th November 2018, 10:58 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Bruno, do i recall correctly in that you told me you have a copy of AS ARMAS E OS BARÕES by Eduardo Nobre? If you hit page 121 you will see two sabres in that the hilts visibly resemble the example you posted. Characteristic of Portuguese light cavalry, as per 1806 regulation. The absence of a prominent pommel is a revealing detail. So is the shape of the langets, an orientalist design bringing memories of Moorish influence. And i wouldn't be surprised that the tang end is screwed to the hilt dome and not peened. Blades in these swords were sometimes bent to an exagerated point (so called parabolic), a typical period show off fashion, like IN HERE. . Attached Images

4th November 2018, 12:14 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A "De Luxe" version of the 1806 Uniform Plan (as it was called) would be this example, provenant of the House of Marquis de Fronteira.The scabbard is silver, with a textile & gold knot strap and tassel. The well bent blade with traces of having been silver plated, with three fullers as from the second quarter. The hilt is in silver, with an internal riveted finger guard. The grip is ebony, with braided silver wire. (Courtesy Paço Ducal de Vila Viçosa) , Attached Images

4th November 2018, 12:39 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	The top sword in Fernando's post 4 looks like a match. I think we have a winner!

4th November 2018, 01:48 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fernando, Is it the photograph, or is this Portuguese blade sharpened only at its distal half?

4th November 2018, 02:49 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Which one you mean, Ariel; the one in post #5 ? The catalogue mentions "de um só gume e cota", roughly translating to "one only edge and back". What you would interpreter as single edged; in all its distance, it must be.

4th November 2018, 03:24 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Wayne, brilliantly summarized notes on the Indian cavalry swords! a field of study which still often remains extremely arcane in the scope of military swords. Which brings me to an even more arcane category of cavalry swords, which are those of Portugal. Perfect match of Bruno's sabre to this Portuguese example! While I have known of the Portuguese fashioning examples after the British model 1796 sabres, I had no idea of these intriguing designs in the langets. My admittedly free association comparison to Indian langets on Indian tulwars suggested possible EIC connection based on other instances I had mentioned, but this specific match to the Portuguese sword would appear irrefutable, and delightfully so. Thank you guys...…...discussions are the VERY best when something new is learned, and best of all, shared.