Boabdil swords and Jineta

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

That thread from 2008 was a remarkable exercise, and had a great deal of information about the Hispano-Moresque swords (Boabdil was only one user of them rather than a descriptive term).

It does not seem that the stylistic form regarded as 'jineta' (but also Nasrid) became known until 13th century during the 'Reconquista' ending the Muslim rule in Andalusia in 1491.....that was where Boabdil the Nasrid ruler was defeated.

Swords of the Nasrid/Hispano-Moresque styles are pretty rare, and I know only of examples in museums in Spain. They are best described in Calvert (1907), "Spanish Arms & Armour", although Nicolle's works have great coverage as noted in the discussions in the linked thread. Bibliographies there as well as even in the Osprey monographs are very thorough.

Thanks, Jim, for the much-needed clarification on terminology, especially to counter the common use of Boabdil as an identifier and general descriptor of the genre. But didn't the Nasrid Dynasty and its capital Granada fall to Ferd and Izzie in 1492? I seem to recall that it was the same year as the expulsion of the Jews and Columbus' first voyage.

Yes, the best surviving ones are in Spain, a complete one (down to the scabbard belt) in astoundingly good condition is in the Museo del Ejército de Madrid (you can see images in Ada Brunn Hoffmeyer's "From Medieval Sword to Renaissance Rapier" in Robt Held (ed) ART, ARMS, AND ARMOUR (1979), p 58. Years ago someone gave me a 35mm print image of a really nice one in the Musée de l'Armée in Paris. but I can't seem to locate it at the moment.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Philip,
Yup, you're right it was actually on Jan 2nd but Ferd and Izzie summoned Muhammed XII (Boabdil) to surrender in 1491 a short time before that so technically 1492. In any case, it was the end of Nasrid rule in Andalusian Spain of the time.

The profound influences of the Nasrid dynasty not only deeply influenced Spain in continuum despite the end of Muslim rule, but filtered into Europe and many cultures in addition to the remaining influence in the Maghreb. It is remarkable that these swords, which I think of as Hispano-Moresque, do not remain in larger number and even those which remain have been challenged as far as authenticity and provenance.
I did not know of the one in Musee d'le Armee in Paris, and excellent reference added in the Ada Bruhn Hoffmeyer article in Held (1979). I imagine there must be other articles in "Gladius", the arms journal in Spain, but have not checked their index.

[ariel]

Fred and Izzie.....
Sounds like a couple in SF bathhouse:-)

[Philip]

Originally Posted by ariel

Fred and Izzie.....
Sounds like a couple in SF bathhouse:-)

Haha Ariel. It's "Ferd" as in Ferdinand, not Fred. But the imagery is highly amusing. When I was in college we used to sing a ribald ballad about Christopher Columbus, with some hilarious but extremely off-color references to the royal couple that would offend any patriotic Spaniard and are definitely not fit for a dignified and erudite venue such as this forum. If the mood strikes I might be inclined to belt out the verses at the Baltimore arms fair, after a few drinks...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

Haha Ariel. It's "Ferd" as in Ferdinand, not Fred. But the imagery is highly amusing. When I was in college we used to sing a ribald ballad about Christopher Columbus ...

Are you paging me Filipe ? ... as you know 'Fernando' was the actual King's name . Interesting that you mention Christopher Columbus (Cristóvão Colombo) as pertaining to the Boabdil saga.
Written material pretends that he was actually around by the time the Nasrid King was expelled from Granada. Interesting also how Francisco Pradilla depicted in 1882 the handing over the city keys to the Catholic Kings. Look at Boabdil's and one of his knights swords.
An artist's gesture of imagination this painting must be as, judging by what is registered, the Nasrid King delidered the keys to Fernando's officials at the Comares Tower of the Alhambra, on the 2nd. January 1492 by dawn.

.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It is remarkable that these swords, which I think of as Hispano-Moresque, do not remain in larger number and even those which remain have been challenged as far as authenticity and provenance.

Jim, do you have the magnificent and very weighty exhibit catalog The Arts of the Muslim Knight: the Furisiyya Art Foundation Collection ed by Basher Mohamed (Milan, 2007)? There is a discussion with double-page and centerfold photos (pp 44-47) of a remarkable and perplexing sword whose blade is identified as Nasrid, 14th cent. from its inscriptions, but for all intents and purposes this blade (single edged, spear-tipped, one narrow dorsal fuller each side and a supplementary fuller at the ricasso) is the most un-Islamic thing imaginable in terms of form. If you looked at it, the opinion would undoubtedly be a backsword blade of "firangi" type commonly seen on Indian swords of four or more centuries later. Furthermore, the hilt resembles those Hispano-Portuguese "crab claw" swords from the beginning of the 16th cent. that were widely imitated in crude form in Kongo. But the hilt, according to Mr Mohamed, is said to be of 19th cent. manufacture.

This is an intriguing sword, the blade defies conventional perceptions and I don't know what to make of a hilt that is said to be 19th cent. on it (a revival of a long-obsolete form). I regret not posting a scan of the image(s) simply because the large-format pages, on which the sword appears on two facing pages and again on a three-sheet foldout, are too large for my scanner.

At any rate, the catalog commentary has something interesting to say about the Hispano-Moresque so-called jinetasthat are the real subject of this thread. According to Mr Mohamed, there are only six known examples, and their blades are nondescript, uninscribed, and do not resemble any comparable double-edged blades from other Islamic culture-spheres. This group was reportedly exhibited at the Alhambra in 1992 to mark the cinquecentennial of the conquest. You might want to look for the exhibition catalog, Al-Andalus: the Art of Islamic Spain (Metro. Mus. of Art, 1997) which has images of these swords. I don't have a copy but it's on the "get" list as of now!

That being said, it might be appropriate to examine some of Mr Mohamed's assertions regarding this small genre. As to their dissimilarity to other Islamic double-edged blades, if we could compare images of all six surviving examples with the counterparts to this type in the Topkapi Sarayi Museum collection, featured in Ünsal Yücel's Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths, we might have a better idea of the degree of dissimilarity and whether it is significant.

Based on the images available to me at present, the Topkapi's published blades are of flattened lenticular cross section except for one with full length wide shallow fullers. The jinete sword published in Held (referenced in prior post) has a half-length deep and narrow fuller, looking for all the world like Oakeshott's Subtype XIIIb. It would be great to see what the other survivors look like.

All of the above referenced blades have similar ogival tip profiles, regardless of fullering or or other details.

As to inscriptions or the lack thereof, the example published in Held does show a circular cartouche, bridging the fuller, that contains some squiggles including something looking like an S, which in the book illustration is of insufficient resolution to decipher. Whether that qualifies as an "inscription" awaits better imagery. Let's hope that the Al-Andalus catalog provides us more to go on.

[Kubur]

Thank you Jim, it's a very clear and net abstract.

I will copy and paste the most relevant informations and pictures on Jineta / Boabdil swords of the previous thread here for all the forum members and visitors.

[Kubur]

1

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

But on the contrary, it is an accepted fact that the jineta sword influenced in the first place the spanish swords, to the degree it was copied in Toledo by the christians (in that time Toledo was on spanish hands), and latter this type of hilt probably spread to other countries, but I don´t have any proof of this diffusion into the rest of Europe. I don´t have the impression that the zenetes had much contact with europeans. In fact, the jineta tactics to make war using the cavalry in a special form, for which even the stirrups of the saddle were modified, were latter copied by castillians to the point it was known by europeans as the "castillian way" to make war.

As you know, the main weapon used by the zenetes was a lance which can be also throwed. Jineta, or Gineta, was a whole complex of tactics, weapons, horse harnesses, all interrelated as a whole, so you can find a treatise of this development in the "Tractado de la Cauallería de la Gineta" a military cavalty treatise written in antique castillian languaje by Hernan Chacon, a knight of the Order of Calatrava.

On the other hand, I have seen many interpretations about the supposed influences from Europe to the rest of the world which do not have a base in actual evidences of a causal nexus, but only on similarities, more or less superficial, on the morphology of the weapon. This a very known practice of ethnocentrism which must be revised in order to have a more objetive vision of the history of the swords. The first example I recall, is the supposed influence of the macedonic machaira on the hindu sousson pata and the khukri, although there is older evidences of this kind of blades in the south of actual India, far from the area of contact with the greeks.

You must take on account that the islamic hilts (and blades) do influenced deeply the european swords, as in the case of the hussar swords from Poland and Hungary, form turkish influence, which latter went as far as Spain with their "sables a la turca" (sabers turkish style). This influence was also reinforced by the mamluke influences which came latter, in the beginning of the 19th Century, and which reached even England. I have seen many european blades on middle east and oriental swords, but always they were remounted in new hilts in the taste of the new owners, and the old hilts were discarded.

Speaking of resemblances, I don´t think the downward curved quillons is enough proof of any influence in either side. But the jineta sword, and specially the hilt, has a special morphology considered as a whole, from which I cannot find ancestry on european swords before the 13th Century. Apart from resembances, we need to establish the physical routes of influence, the commercial or warfare netwoks, the ancestor models and their evolution, and so on. From my sources (Ibn Jaldun history of the berbers), the zenetes were a relatively isolated tribe from Europe influences in that time, making war to other berber tribes and to the fatimides, and it was not until they had an ephimeral hegemony in North Africa, that they went to Spain, first as military contingent, and latter as conquerors of Al-Andalús. Between zenetes, in the west of North Africa, and the europeans, in the Middle East, there were the fatimids, and no commercial post on the coast linked them directly with Europe until latter, when the jineta swords already was an adopted weapon.

However, maybe I do not have enough information on this subject, but if you do, please help me to correct my mistake. I think I have many black spots in my knowlege of the berber and moorish history, and I would appreciate any solid reference you can give me on this point.
My best regards

Gonzalo

[Kubur]

2

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Having said that, I think it is best to consider these distinctly formed hilt styles and focus on their possible ancestry. While the history of the Zenatas and the geopolitics of Spain in the medieval period is fascinating, I hope I can address the question without that complexity.

As Gonzalo has aptly noted, we do not know what form the tribal groups that became known collectively as Zeneta in pre-Islamic times, but as they are believed from Tunisian regions, some research on those regions in period may reveal clues. As noted, we do know that by the 8th century, most of the groups were distinctly Muslim, and these Berber warriors were well established in Andulusian armies. By the 15th century, it is noted however that these light horsemen equipped a la jineta (for Zeneta) though numerous, "...much of thier equipment was imported from Italy, though Spain had a long established armament industry". ("Fernando El Catolico", David Nicolle, Military Illustrated #44, January, 1992, p.48).

While this would seem to suggest that European weapons were prevalent, and possible influence was there, there is no qualified estimation of how prevalent. It is noted further a suggestion of an earlier form of weapon existing in the description of the war sword of Ferdinand the Catholic "...a magnificent late 15th century weapon in an older Iberian-Islamic tradition; it is distinctly related to lighter Granadan swords such as the superb surviving 'jinete' sword of Boabdil". ( M.I. #44, op.cit. p.51)

The sword of Boabdil is the distinct form of Hispano-Moresque jinete, with pointed dome pommel, and profusely ornate with the quillons dropping straight downward, parallel to the blade. The Ferdinand sword has the gently drooping guard with drooping inner quillons associated somewhat with European 'crab claw' type hilts.

In "El Cid and the Reconquista 1050-1492" (D.Nicolle, 1988, Osprey200) these distinct 'jinete' hilts are shown on p.19 (fig. I) as late 14th century, and on p.46 (plate F2) being wielded by a Qadi (religious judge) of late 14th century. It is noted that "...the decorated light sword is described of Grenadine form, a weapon originally developed for light cavalry a la jinete".
It is also noted that some of these jinete swords were richly decorated, probably as gifts or bribes for neighboring Christian aristocrats (p.36).

The sword of Boabdil is illustrated and described in David Nicolle's article "Abu 'Abdullah' Muhammed XI Boabdil of Granada" (M.I. #43, Dec.1991, p.50) and is apparantly held in the Museo del Ejercito in Madrid.

Turning to the later representation of this distinct sword type, the Omani kattara shown in Robert Elgood's "Arms and Armour of Arabia" ( 1994, pp.17,18, fig. 2.13 and 2.15) shows these hilts structurally of essentially the same form of the 'jineta' discussed, but with decorative coverings missing, the dramatic downward quillons vestigial. There is no definite ancestry offered for these swords which are considered of 17th to 18th century (despite an auction catalog with 12th-14th c. date suggested without specific support). Though there is no agreed regional provenance on these, it does seem clear that they are reflective of the 14th century jineta's of the form discussed.

These jineta swords, with dramatically straight downward guard extensions that run parallel to the blade, rather than being guard quillons, particularly with elaborate decoration as in the Boabdil sword, seem to reflect an almost architectural characteristic.

While the reference to the sword of Ferdinand suggests association in its downturned quillons to the Boabdil jineta, I feel that this rather benign form in comparison relates more to cross influence with the European forms.

While this certainly does not answer the question, it has prompted me to learn more on the forms noted, which I have tried to share here.As always, I hope that others might have access to material that would describe the weapons used by the Zenete in North Africa, as well as early Granadan swords that might have been prototypes for the jinete.

[Kubur]

3

Originally Posted by Marc

If by “the war sword of Ferdinand the Catholic” David Nicolle means either the so-called (sometimes) “Ferdinand’s sword” in the Real Armería:

or the sword from his tomb that stays now in Granada:

then, beyond some decorative aspects, I don’t really see any relationship with the so-called sword of Boabdil in Madrid’s Army museum.

which is a “typical” exemplar of the courtly/luxury Hispano-Moresque sword of Nasrid style from the 14th-15th c, of which some exemplars (less than a dozen, I think) are still extant. I seems quite clear that from this date afterwards this was the style associated with what a “jineta” sword was, specially in the Christian ambit, but it is not so clear that this was the kind of sword that the Zenetes brought with them. We know the Zenetes, in their 13th c. invasions of the Iberian Peninsula, bring with them the light cavalry tactics that will heavily influence the Christian Spanish way of fighting on horseback, including many changes of equipment. But the period descriptions of their swords are not clear enough to make us able to recognize a Zenete/Jineta sword by itself, specially regarding their morphological features, as many of the accounts are not only vague but also centred in the description of how rich and decorated some of them were, obviating the characteristics of those swords that were not destined to the rich and powerful.

On the other hand, in the 13th c. the Zenetes had already been Islamized for a long time, as they had contacts with the first Umayyad invading waves that in the 7th century swept North Africa from East to West, and in fact they helped them to first conquer Iberia as shock troops, at that time. Well, to make a long story short, what I try to point out is that the elite ruling classes in Muslim Spain, those who brought the strongest “foreign” influences in art, religion, society, law, technology, etc. were Umayyad Arabs. And the pre-Islamic and early Islamic Arab swords had straight, double-edged blades, with short, curved quillions (even “D” shaped guards, where the blade emerges from the straight side and the grip from the curved one) of Persian/Sassanid influence (see, for example, HOYLAND, R. G. and GILMOUR, B. “Medieval Islamic Swords and Swordmaking. Kindi’s treatise ‘On Swords and their Kinds’ ”, Ed. By E. J. W. Gibb Memorial Trust, 2006; ALEXANDER, “Swords and sabers during the Early Islamic Period”, Gladius XXI, 2001, pp. 193-220 or ZAKY “Introduction to the study of Islamic Arms and Armour”, Gladius I, 1961, pp. 17-30). And in Al-Andalus there was no take-over by the Central Asian Turcoman tribes with their curved swords (among other things), but instead there was a certain fondness by the old Arab traditions. And on top of that, and most importantly, there are examples of straight double edged swords with short and/or curved quillions from the 9th (CANTÓ GARCÍA, “Una espada de época Omeya del siglo IX D.C”, Gladius XXI, 2001, pp. 183-192) and 12th (NICOLLE, “Two swords from the foundation of Gibraltar”, Gladius XXII, 2002, pp. 147-200) centuries in the territories of Muslim Spain. The picture that seems to emerge to all this, is that the late Nasrid swords are a development of these earlier double-edged swords which in turn are the inheritors of the pre-Islamic and early Islamic Arab swords, and that their dropping quillions seem to owe more to the Persian/Sassanid typologies than to any European influence. As an additional twist to the question, those early Arab swords are, after all, what the Qajar “revival” swords tried to imitate, if I’m not mistaken, with a tendency to also feature the kind of dropping quillions that we also find in Qattaras from Oman and Yemen.

In short, that although the mutual influences between Hispanic Muslims and Christians is an absolutely undeniable reality for as long as they shared the territory, I don’t think that the dropping quillions of the late Nasrid luxury swords are a consequence of it, but a development of the old pre-Islamic and early Islamic Arabic sword typologies.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Thank you Jim, it's a very clear and net abstract.

I will copy and paste the most relevant informations and pictures on Jineta / Boabdil swords of the previous thread here for all the forum members and visitors.

Kubur thank you for saying so, and thank you for posting the great images and recapping some of the outstanding discourse from 2008 and 2017 on this complex topic. It is good to have this comprehensive material compiled together here for readers and future researchers.

Philip, thanks for the mention of the Furisayya volume which is brilliantly compiled material and photos as well. The complexities of this sword form often move into a notable spectrum given the periods and geo-cultural considerations but seem distinct and influential in their character.
The decorative motif and elaborate designs in addition to their 'exotic'
structures and elements are breathtaking to say the least.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

... Years ago someone gave me a 35mm print image of a really nice one in the Musée de l'Armée in Paris. but I can't seem to locate it at the moment...

Then Philip, you will have to satisfy with a 2D image of the one in the Middle Ages Museum of Cluny


.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by fernando

Then Philip, you will have to satisfy with a 2D image of the one in the Middle Ages Museum of Cluny
.

Are you sure Cluny?
I was thinking the National library

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bt...f/f1.item.zoom

Another one in Paris
with a different kind of blade

http://www.musee-armee.fr/collection...-boadbdil.html

[Kubur]

Question the first Jineta has a German blade from late 16th early 17th c.
Is it common to have Jineta with late blades?
Do you know if the Spanish examples are the same?
It's probably logic when you look at the quality of the hilts and scabbards.
It might explain why these swords survived until our days...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Kubur

... Are you sure Cluny?
I was thinking the National library ...

Well ...

.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by fernando

Well ...
.

I think it was only for an exhibition on the swords in 2011.
The sword belongs to the National library.

http://medaillesetantiques.bnf.fr/ws...2148/c33gbdnf6

This sword is called epee /espada de Luynes (name of the previous owner)

[midelburgo]

I believe the jineta subject is quite more complex than initially thought so the best is to pile up all the relating info.

This is an interesting start even when in Spanish:

http://www.alhambra-patronato.es/fil...sa_nazar__.pdf

There are several archeological remnants usually not mentioned as ginetas, for example this islamic sword found at Guadalajara (the gilt one).

For me, the closest relatives to the Nasrid jinetas come from the Mamluk State. And the Mamluk weapons come from Syria. And the Syrian weapons are derived from Bizantium.

Interesting pictures in an article by Yotov:
https://www.academia.edu/2328824/A_N...1th_CENTURIES_

A not anymore extant Jineta was painted by El Greco. You can compare it to the San Telmo Gineta and a Mamluk banner...

You have mamluk swords with low quillions and others where the hilt surrounds the sheath mouth. Spheric pommels seem to be a characteristic of some mamluk and bizantine swords...

We can go East to Xian an Tibet as well...

[midelburgo]

On the other hand you have the so called war-Jinetas, like the bottom one at Sevilla. There is a similar one at Vitoria.
There is one has a flat disc pommel, that can be found also in Mamluk swords.

Nicolle described another two war jinetas (XII century) found in Gibraltar in a Gladius article. They have sphaerical pommels.
http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/inde...rticle/view/59

And another, sort of intermediate to the later Nasrid swords was found in Sanguesa (Navarra). Compare it to the San Telmo and Greco example.

Extra record: Is this a Jineta?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5h1k8-SzaI

And finally another arqueological find in Spain of unknown thereabouts.

[Jim McDougall]

Philip, I was remiss in not responding to your post #7 and thank you for mentioning the Furisiyya volume which I do have, and also for noting the work , "Al Andalus: The Art of Islamic Spain" Met, Mus. of Art, 1997, which is now on my 'get' list too.

Well observed on the blades.....it would be good to compare the blades on the swords of Topkapi and the examples in Spain. Yucel notes that while it is certain these swords in Istanbul with distinguished provenance along with the rest have been remounted c. 1517 , many of the blades may be of the antiquity noted and to the attribution claimed.


Keeping to the key topic here, the form and likely development of the Hispano-Moresque sword forms with regard to the hilts, it seems it was questioned at some point (I believe Gonzalo) how the notion of possible European infuence was arrived at. Also, how early was the downward turned quillon present in the Iberian/ Al Andalusian swords?


In Dr, David Nicolle, "Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350" (1988, p.158) , it is noted;

"... a new type of sword and its associated tactics are believed to have been introduced to the Iberian Peninsula by Berber mercenaries and conquerors in the 11th and 12th centuries perhaps as a precursor to , or an early version of the JINETE light cavalry tactics clearly introduced from North Africa in the 13th-14th c.
Light cavalry combat a la' jinete was again associated with what west Europeans came to know as the Italian grip, and according to some scholars, with curved quillons".

in the article previously cited by Midelburgo, Dr. Nicolle again addresses the curved quillon conundrum in "Two Swords from the Foundation of Gibraltar" (Gladius XXII, 2002, pp 147-200);
Where two swords of 12th c. were found in a cave on Gibraltar in which one had somewhat downturned quillons, the other with straight.

While Yucel (2001, p.54) has asserted that virtually nothing is known about the form and nature of Umayyad and Abbasid hilts or the period from 8th c. to the Mamluk period. However it seems in various other works there have been presumptions that these hilts may have been guardless except for a kind of cuff extending over the blade forte.

Nicolle (2002, op. cit. #33) illustrates a hilt of this general form as Mamluk or Maghribi (North African broadly) 12th-14th c.


It would seem that both downturn quillons and straight existed contemporarily in Al Andalusian Spain in c. 12th century, and the 'cuffed' type hilt feature existed possibly from as early as Umayyad North Africa. Later the style probably influenced hilts in degree in the Maghrib and Mamluk spheres travelling into Al Andalusian Spain sometime after 12th c.

Perhaps the cuffed style incorporated downturned quillons and evolved into the elaborately decorated Nasrid (Boabdil/Jineta) style which were intended for prominant if not regal figures as reflective of stature.


I do not believe these elaborately decorated and structured hilts were prevalent overall in Spain, but were selectively unique and that most swords in use were of the more commonly seen quillon types which evolved into the crab claw types later.