Poiniard? Stilleto? Naval dirk?

M ELEY · 4th October 2018, 04:54 AM

I like the way you think, Rick-

Having looked over some of the past posts on Misericordes, along with close cousins like the so-called 'Gunner's daggers', I would say it is a distinct possibility. I was guessing at the age of the dagger, so it could easily be a century older than I first thought (17th versus 18th).

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...6-a61a00976aa9

I also understand that there was a resurgence of Misericordes in Victorian times, but most of those were extremely embellished/decorated and typically not 'working models' (blunt edges), like the ritual Satanist daggers coming out of France during the 19th c. I am out of my league on this one and will have to do some research on these types. Thank you so much for the (potential) lead. I will say that to back up your theory, mine does have the cruciform hilt and the diamond-shaped blade would easily punch through thin sheet metal I think...
Mark

M ELEY · 4th October 2018, 05:08 AM

It is interesting that the hilt on this one is shaped similar to mine and made of horn. Also the similarity in the blade. This one shorter than mine at 16".

M ELEY · 4th October 2018, 05:12 AM

Rick, I think you hit it on the head! Here's another listed as 17th c. with an eerily similar hilt to mine!

Madnumforce · 4th October 2018, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

It is interesting that the hilt on this one is shaped similar to mine and made of horn. Also the similarity in the blade. This one shorter than mine at 16".

Well, it may not be very interesting, but judging from the stringy aspect of that horn and the deep, warm, chatoyant honey colour, I'd say it's likely some sort of sheep/ram horn.

Rick · 4th October 2018, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I like the way you think, Rick-

Having looked over some of the past posts on Misericordes, along with close cousins like the so-called 'Gunner's daggers', I would say it is a distinct possibility. I was guessing at the age of the dagger, so it could easily be a century older than I first thought (17th versus 18th).

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...6-a61a00976aa9

I also understand that there was a resurgence of Misericordes in Victorian times, but most of those were extremely embellished/decorated and typically not 'working models' (blunt edges), like the ritual Satanist daggers coming out of France during the 19th c. I am out of my league on this one and will have to do some research on these types. Thank you so much for the (potential) lead. I will say that to back up your theory, mine does have the cruciform hilt and the diamond-shaped blade would easily punch through thin sheet metal I think...
Mark

Just to confuse things further Mark, artillery men, or gun captains at sea used goose quills packed with powder to shove down the touch hole so that ignition was pretty much guaranteed by a substantial amount of priming powder reaching the charge. In this situation a smooth pointed stiletto would be useful and would not need to have notches near the point to rip the cartridge bag.
There is an example of a rough pointed example to be found in a 'gunner's stiletto' forum search.

M ELEY · 5th October 2018, 02:40 AM

Now I really think we're got it. Here is a post from the Forum with excellent notes from Jim McD and Michael.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=84218

I also found a group of stilettos and 'bombadier's stilettos' in Southwick's guide which were a near match. Most were all steel, but two listed had horn hilts and one of them was unmarked on the blade, like mine. Apparently, not all had the numerals on them.

I was a little worried that mine might be more contemporary, what with the odd round quillons, but the examples shown all had oval or round quillons as well!
Rick, thanks for pinning this one down! I am most surprised by the final identity!

Rick · 5th October 2018, 03:26 AM

Another feature that might pin this stiletto down even further Mark is that this example has no apparent taper to the blade and thus is ideally suited to the touchhole of a cannon.

M ELEY · 6th October 2018, 04:25 AM

Another valid point I hadn't thought of , Rick. The blade indeed doesn't taper at all until the very end. Looking through the Forum did pull up a lot of great info on these interesting pieces. Check out this stiletto (from one of the threads) and notice the matching hilt pattern to mine!

Jim McDougall · 8th October 2018, 04:20 PM

Nicely researched Mark, and reflects the years of material archived here and many places online. While very 'old school' and still drawn to my books, there is so much data online continually transcribed into the online medium, and for those willing to search......."cerca trova" .

I am inclined to this being a stiletto and its neo classic style seems in French or Italian manner most likely in 18th c. in accord with these influences.

M ELEY · 9th October 2018, 12:24 AM

Thanks for commenting, Jim. Your previous article (attached) from 2009 filled in the blanks. I also suspected 18th, towards the 'tail-end' of the stiletto's popularity. I was still very pleased with the clarification of what this piece was!

4th October 2018, 05:08 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Here's a French or Italian one from c.1550. It is interesting that the hilt on this one is shaped similar to mine and made of horn. Also the similarity in the blade. This one shorter than mine at 16". Attached Images

4th October 2018, 05:12 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	And another! Rick, I think you hit it on the head! Here's another listed as 17th c. with an eerily similar hilt to mine! Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 4th October 2018 at 06:15 AM.

6th October 2018, 04:25 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Another valid point I hadn't thought of , Rick. The blade indeed doesn't taper at all until the very end. Looking through the Forum did pull up a lot of great info on these interesting pieces. Check out this stiletto (from one of the threads) and notice the matching hilt pattern to mine! Attached Images

4th October 2018, 04:54 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	I like the way you think, Rick- Having looked over some of the past posts on Misericordes, along with close cousins like the so-called 'Gunner's daggers', I would say it is a distinct possibility. I was guessing at the age of the dagger, so it could easily be a century older than I first thought (17th versus 18th). https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...6-a61a00976aa9 I also understand that there was a resurgence of Misericordes in Victorian times, but most of those were extremely embellished/decorated and typically not 'working models' (blunt edges), like the ritual Satanist daggers coming out of France during the 19th c. I am out of my league on this one and will have to do some research on these types. Thank you so much for the (potential) lead. I will say that to back up your theory, mine does have the cruciform hilt and the diamond-shaped blade would easily punch through thin sheet metal I think... Mark

5th October 2018, 02:40 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Now I really think we're got it. Here is a post from the Forum with excellent notes from Jim McD and Michael. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=84218 I also found a group of stilettos and 'bombadier's stilettos' in Southwick's guide which were a near match. Most were all steel, but two listed had horn hilts and one of them was unmarked on the blade, like mine. Apparently, not all had the numerals on them. I was a little worried that mine might be more contemporary, what with the odd round quillons, but the examples shown all had oval or round quillons as well! Rick, thanks for pinning this one down! I am most surprised by the final identity!

5th October 2018, 03:26 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Another feature that might pin this stiletto down even further Mark is that this example has no apparent taper to the blade and thus is ideally suited to the touchhole of a cannon.

8th October 2018, 04:20 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Nicely researched Mark, and reflects the years of material archived here and many places online. While very 'old school' and still drawn to my books, there is so much data online continually transcribed into the online medium, and for those willing to search......."cerca trova" . I am inclined to this being a stiletto and its neo classic style seems in French or Italian manner most likely in 18th c. in accord with these influences.

9th October 2018, 12:24 AM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Thanks for commenting, Jim. Your previous article (attached) from 2009 filled in the blanks. I also suspected 18th, towards the 'tail-end' of the stiletto's popularity. I was still very pleased with the clarification of what this piece was!