Canon barrel

fernando · 6th September 2018, 04:23 PM

As being discussed HERE, Richard

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AHorsa · 17th November 2018, 12:25 PM

I meanwhile cleaned the cannon a little and built a stand.

Is there any possibility to find out about the fragmented mark on the upper site of the barrel? It seems that the english had some arrow as a mark but that doesn´t fit here...

Kind regards!

fernando · 17th November 2018, 01:06 PM

Nice work; impecable stand

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AHorsa · 19th November 2018, 06:47 AM

Thanks for the feedbacks!
The number of the weight myght be a possibility, but I doubt that it was an one from its shape...

Helleri · 23rd November 2018, 02:04 AM

As a point of clarification the difference between a swivel gun and a signal cannon is often just the mounting/fittings. Length can be from about 12in./30cm to 28in./71cm. for either. Though 15in./38cm. and under is more typical of swivel guns and over 20in./50.cm is more typical of signal cannons. Some barrels were basically universal between the two modes (though some were made for dedicated purpose as one or the other). The square cube law as is relates to mass and weight means that over 20in./50.cm becomes very difficult to operate as a swivel gun.

What's interesting here is that the length would suggest that it's more on the signal cannon side of things. However it has the remnants of a firing lanyard on the neck and knob. A very real possibility is that it was used as a swivel gun last. But because of the interchangeability of it all. It could have originally been a signal cannon that was repurposed for wartime.

The form is very indicative of an American or British make from around the turn of the 19th century. Given that it's clearly a shipwreck recovery and it's similarity to ship and dock guns of the time It's even very likely that a gun like this was involved in the war of 1812/Napoleonic wars.

I'd actually lean more towards American given that at the time the British were starting to use wood stocks on their swivel guns. Whereas the Americans for a large chunk of that time period had no more than 13 warships the British has over 6,000. America building more ships had to be done on the cheap and discretely as it was hard to secure funding and they didn't want to be seen as mobilizing. Rounding up all the dedicated signal cannons and converting them into swivel guns is exactly the kind of thing the poor American fleet would have had to do at the time.

Oh also you may want to double check the mounting job you did. The firing lanyard appears to be upside down. However if the bow of it is on the vent hole side it may just be that it got turned somehow. It could also be that it was mounted upside down for more control with the kick of the gun given it's length (again if the vent hole is on the same side).

fernando · 23rd November 2018, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helleri

As a point of clarification the difference between a swivel gun and a signal cannon is often just the mounting/fittings. Length can be from about 12in./30cm to 28in./71cm. for either. Though 15in./38cm. and under is more typical of swivel guns and over 20in./50.cm is more typical of signal cannons... The square cube law as is relates to mass and weight means that over 20in./50.cm becomes very difficult to operate as a swivel gun.
...

Sorry for my confusion Hellery but, your vision of typologies doesn't fit into what i humbly understand of these things, namely on what concerns swivel guns. Where would i place in it, for example, barrels of XV-XVI century Portuguese berços, with a length of 162 cms. (weighing 100 Kilos) or 118 cms. long Malasian lantakas ?
I take it for me that, as long as the trunnions are accurately positioned, which is to expect from the gun smithing specialists, "heavy" cannons swivel so easily that their weight doesn't count.
... Unless i am in a different frequency and didn't get your point, for which i would appologize

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Helleri · 7th December 2018, 04:06 PM

It's not the fact that it can still swivel if well balanced at virtually any size. It's that when you touch-off one that's too large, no bar is going to prevent that thing from kicking back on you and actually sending the round god knows where. Larger and longer barrels equate to either more charge capacity or more gas compression. There is no outguessing for this either. So it all comes as recoil. The bigger the gun, the more it takes to keep it under control while discharging. There's an upper limit on what a man can manage in this respect.

CSinTX · 17th November 2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Is there any possibility to find out about the fragmented mark on the upper site of the barrel?

Kind regards!

Possibly a number 1 to designate a 1lb shot. Common on british made guns. See the recently sold 2lb gun marked with a 2 (incorrectly described as a 4 pounder).

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Rick · 17th November 2018, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Possibly a number 1 to designate a 1lb shot. Common on british made guns. See the recently sold 2lb gun marked with a 2 (incorrectly described as a 4 pounder)...

I also doubt very much that it is a Carronade.

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17th November 2018, 12:25 PM	#2
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 375	I meanwhile cleaned the cannon a little and built a stand. Is there any possibility to find out about the fragmented mark on the upper site of the barrel? It seems that the english had some arrow as a mark but that doesn´t fit here... Kind regards! Attached Images

6th September 2018, 04:23 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	As being discussed HERE, Richard .

17th November 2018, 01:06 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Nice work; impecable stand .

19th November 2018, 06:47 AM	#4
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 375	Thanks for the feedbacks! The number of the weight myght be a possibility, but I doubt that it was an one from its shape...

23rd November 2018, 02:04 AM	#5
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	As a point of clarification the difference between a swivel gun and a signal cannon is often just the mounting/fittings. Length can be from about 12in./30cm to 28in./71cm. for either. Though 15in./38cm. and under is more typical of swivel guns and over 20in./50.cm is more typical of signal cannons. Some barrels were basically universal between the two modes (though some were made for dedicated purpose as one or the other). The square cube law as is relates to mass and weight means that over 20in./50.cm becomes very difficult to operate as a swivel gun. What's interesting here is that the length would suggest that it's more on the signal cannon side of things. However it has the remnants of a firing lanyard on the neck and knob. A very real possibility is that it was used as a swivel gun last. But because of the interchangeability of it all. It could have originally been a signal cannon that was repurposed for wartime. The form is very indicative of an American or British make from around the turn of the 19th century. Given that it's clearly a shipwreck recovery and it's similarity to ship and dock guns of the time It's even very likely that a gun like this was involved in the war of 1812/Napoleonic wars. I'd actually lean more towards American given that at the time the British were starting to use wood stocks on their swivel guns. Whereas the Americans for a large chunk of that time period had no more than 13 warships the British has over 6,000. America building more ships had to be done on the cheap and discretely as it was hard to secure funding and they didn't want to be seen as mobilizing. Rounding up all the dedicated signal cannons and converting them into swivel guns is exactly the kind of thing the poor American fleet would have had to do at the time. Oh also you may want to double check the mounting job you did. The firing lanyard appears to be upside down. However if the bow of it is on the vent hole side it may just be that it got turned somehow. It could also be that it was mounted upside down for more control with the kick of the gun given it's length (again if the vent hole is on the same side).

7th December 2018, 04:06 PM	#7
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	It's not the fact that it can still swivel if well balanced at virtually any size. It's that when you touch-off one that's too large, no bar is going to prevent that thing from kicking back on you and actually sending the round god knows where. Larger and longer barrels equate to either more charge capacity or more gas compression. There is no outguessing for this either. So it all comes as recoil. The bigger the gun, the more it takes to keep it under control while discharging. There's an upper limit on what a man can manage in this respect.