Keris Videos (Malay Peninsula)

A. G. Maisey · 15th August 2018, 11:42 PM

Yes green, Malay is recognised as being a simple language, but in my experience, that simplicity only extends to the basic "Pasar Malay", or in my case "Pasar Indonesian". I learnt Indonesian as an adult, and I think it probably took me about 5 years to achieve a level of reasonable competency in Pasar Indonesian. I'm a slow learner, but in my own defence I must add that I found it almost impossible to learn in a classroom situation, and I learnt by writing and during my two and three monthly visits to Jawa & Bali. To move from Pasar Indonesian to the level suitable for official use, or for conversation in polite company, I think it probably took me about 20 years. I will say this:- Indonesian is far more simple than Italian, and infinitely more simple than English.

In fact, the dialect of Malay spoken in South East Sumatra was chosen as the foundation stone of national language, for the soon-to-be nation of Indonesia by the Indonesian Nationalist Movement in 1928. Sukarno as president did not choose Malay as the national language of Indonesia, but since he founded the PNI in 1927, it is likely that he was involved in the choice before he became president.

The choice was a logical one, because low Malay, or Pasar Malay (as opposed to Classical or High Malay) had been the language of trade for a 1000 years or more across much of, if not all, SE Asia, and by some accounts, even further afield. It was the language used to spread Islam and Christianity in Jawa and the rest of the Archipelago.

However, it is important to note that Bahasa Indonesia, ie, Indonesian, is a public language and the only official language, it is not used in the home, it is not used in colloquial exchanges, it is used in news broadcasts, nationally screened TV shows, official exchanges. In my experience, when ordinary people, as distinct from highly educated people, use Indonesian in Jawa, Bali, and Madura, the language that they use bears only a passing resemblance to Indonesian as we hear it in an official or public context. The language that these ordinary people call "Bahasa Indonesia" is so mixed with the other languages that these people speak, that it has become a dialect in its own right.

Relative to the use of the word "warangan", it is as David has already advised, the word "warangan" does appear in 19th century literature relevant to use in Malay. I agree that it is a loan word from Javanese, but once a loan word comes into another language it becomes a part of the lexicon of that language. As for using the test of recognition of a word by a native speaker in order to endorse its place in a language, I regret that we cannot accept that argument. My native language is English, and although I am reasonably proficient in the use of English, there are numerous words that I do not recognise. Just because a word is a part of a technical jargon, that does not exclude it from inclusion in the main body of the language.

15th August 2018, 11:42 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes green, Malay is recognised as being a simple language, but in my experience, that simplicity only extends to the basic "Pasar Malay", or in my case "Pasar Indonesian". I learnt Indonesian as an adult, and I think it probably took me about 5 years to achieve a level of reasonable competency in Pasar Indonesian. I'm a slow learner, but in my own defence I must add that I found it almost impossible to learn in a classroom situation, and I learnt by writing and during my two and three monthly visits to Jawa & Bali. To move from Pasar Indonesian to the level suitable for official use, or for conversation in polite company, I think it probably took me about 20 years. I will say this:- Indonesian is far more simple than Italian, and infinitely more simple than English. In fact, the dialect of Malay spoken in South East Sumatra was chosen as the foundation stone of national language, for the soon-to-be nation of Indonesia by the Indonesian Nationalist Movement in 1928. Sukarno as president did not choose Malay as the national language of Indonesia, but since he founded the PNI in 1927, it is likely that he was involved in the choice before he became president. The choice was a logical one, because low Malay, or Pasar Malay (as opposed to Classical or High Malay) had been the language of trade for a 1000 years or more across much of, if not all, SE Asia, and by some accounts, even further afield. It was the language used to spread Islam and Christianity in Jawa and the rest of the Archipelago. However, it is important to note that Bahasa Indonesia, ie, Indonesian, is a public language and the only official language, it is not used in the home, it is not used in colloquial exchanges, it is used in news broadcasts, nationally screened TV shows, official exchanges. In my experience, when ordinary people, as distinct from highly educated people, use Indonesian in Jawa, Bali, and Madura, the language that they use bears only a passing resemblance to Indonesian as we hear it in an official or public context. The language that these ordinary people call "Bahasa Indonesia" is so mixed with the other languages that these people speak, that it has become a dialect in its own right. Relative to the use of the word "warangan", it is as David has already advised, the word "warangan" does appear in 19th century literature relevant to use in Malay. I agree that it is a loan word from Javanese, but once a loan word comes into another language it becomes a part of the lexicon of that language. As for using the test of recognition of a word by a native speaker in order to endorse its place in a language, I regret that we cannot accept that argument. My native language is English, and although I am reasonably proficient in the use of English, there are numerous words that I do not recognise. Just because a word is a part of a technical jargon, that does not exclude it from inclusion in the main body of the language.