Origin of this knife?

fernando · 5th April 2006, 09:11 PM

Blade lengths are:
Top one - 18 centimeters
Center one - 20,5 centimetrs.
I wonder what the hilt is made with.
Bottom one - 13,5 centimeters ... quite small.

Chris Evans · 6th April 2006, 02:44 AM

Hi,

In Sth America, smaller cuchillos and cuchillas, that is narrow and broad bladed knives are known as "verijeros", sometimes spelled as "verigeros". Now, "verije" in Spanish means the groin/genital area and why these knives are known as literally "groiners" is less than entirely clear, but conventional wisdom has it that they acquired the name from the manner in which they are carried; Verijeros are usually tucked into the belt on the LHS and in between the hip and the belly button, pointing towards the groin.

The maxium size for a verijero is limited by the comfort that it can be carried in the above mentioned position. This consideration usually restricts them to a blade length of less than 6". Longer knives having to be carried across the small of the back. Verijeros are used for those tasks that require a small blade and are considered tools rather than weapons.

Fernando's gaucho kife with the 18cm blade is a little too big for a verijero and too small to be carried in the small of the back, so it would be simply known as a cuchillo and by a few as an oversized verijero. Knives of this size were usually tucked into the belt near the hip, though at times also at the small of the back.

The blade and cross guard, of the second is typical of facons, albeit in this instance very much undersized and probably made to serve as a souvenir. The dimensions of the third firmly makes it a verijero, although its handle is not that of typical South American knives.

However we have to keep in mind that contrary to modern perceptions, apart from blade commonalities, there was no universal typology in handles until the 20th century because the Sth American nations lacked a manufacturing base up to that time, most tools, weapons and other implement having to be imported from Europe. As a result, all kinds of knives found their way into the hands of the Gauchos, which included knives fashioned from broken sheep shears. The general style that nowadays is associated with gaucho knives emerged from a desire to conform with a national cultural sereotype, that of a mythical gaucho, and is based on what a wealthy "campesino" (man of the land) would have owned in the second half of the 19th century and worn only on festive occasions.

Cheers
Chris

Chris Evans · 7th April 2006, 03:35 AM

Hi,

A Correction:

In my haste I forgot to mention that according to Argentinean authorities a "puñal" is a cuchillo with a substantial false edge, which in many cases is left blunt - As with the term "facon", this nomenclature is also used fairly loosely.

Also, According to the Argentinean expert Abel Domenech, and confirmed by my own observations, is the disproportionate emphasis placed on the decoration of those very ornate criollo knives, whilst in too many cases the blade's finish and general quality is quite basic or even disappointing. Domenech concludes that for the owners of these knives appearance was considerably more important than function. As an aside, I made the same observation about a good many antique Spanish navajas found in collections.

Cheers
Chris

Brezolin · 2nd September 2011, 04:15 AM

Hello Guys!
I'm reviving this topic to add new information!

This knife is a knife with certainty Brazilian. Probably this is a “Mineira” knife. This type of knives (Mineira) were produced starting in the end century XVIII the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil.
Present on the cable, sheath and ricasso pretty loud in silver. The grooves and details on the blade are not rare, and appear in various knives.
This model influenced the type of “faca de ponta”, another Brazilian model.

This link has extensive information on Brasilian Knives...
http://www.colecaoorsini.com.br/
But in the Portuguese language.

Best regards

Brezolin

PS: Sorry for my english, I'm using Google translator.

Atlantia · 2nd September 2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brezolin

Hello Guys!
I'm reviving this topic to add new information!

This knife is a knife with certainty Brazilian. Probably this is a “Mineira” knife. This type of knives (Mineira) were produced starting in the end century XVIII the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil.
Present on the cable, sheath and ricasso pretty loud in silver. The grooves and details on the blade are not rare, and appear in various knives.
This model influenced the type of “faca de ponta”, another Brazilian model.

This link has extensive information on Brasilian Knives...
http://www.colecaoorsini.com.br/
But in the Portuguese language.

Best regards

Brezolin

PS: Sorry for my english, I'm using Google translator.

Hi Brezolin,

Your English translation is excellent, do not worry.
Thank you for the information and welcome to the forums.
I assumed that these small Brazilian knives were still generically known simply as 'Faca De Ponta', so it's very interesting to hear that these small ones are “Mineira”.
Could you have a look at this thread please:
Faca de ponta
I would be greatful is you could review my 'findings' into the below examples and make any comments or corrections?

Regards
Gene

Chris Evans · 3rd September 2011, 10:32 AM

Brezolin,

Muito obrigado

for your post and that wonderful link to Brazilian knives.

Cheers
Chris

Maskell · 3rd September 2011, 12:38 PM

I don't know what this piece is, I see some similarity in this post, the metal mounts are aluminum, the guard in the shape of a Lebel bayonet. The pumpkin shape ball pommel is horn and much eaten by insects. Grip is reeded bone. 17" overall. Any idea?

Best,
Jerry

2nd September 2011, 04:15 AM	#4
Brezolin Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: São Borja, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil Posts: 3	Reactivating topic! Hello Guys! I'm reviving this topic to add new information! This knife is a knife with certainty Brazilian. Probably this is a “Mineira” knife. This type of knives (Mineira) were produced starting in the end century XVIII the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil. Present on the cable, sheath and ricasso pretty loud in silver. The grooves and details on the blade are not rare, and appear in various knives. This model influenced the type of “faca de ponta”, another Brazilian model. This link has extensive information on Brasilian Knives... http://www.colecaoorsini.com.br/ But in the Portuguese language. Best regards Brezolin PS: Sorry for my english, I'm using Google translator.

3rd September 2011, 12:38 PM	#7
Maskell Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 38	I don't know what this piece is, I see some similarity in this post, the metal mounts are aluminum, the guard in the shape of a Lebel bayonet. The pumpkin shape ball pommel is horn and much eaten by insects. Grip is reeded bone. 17" overall. Any idea? Best, Jerry Attached Images

5th April 2006, 09:11 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Blade lengths are: Top one - 18 centimeters Center one - 20,5 centimetrs. I wonder what the hilt is made with. Bottom one - 13,5 centimeters ... quite small.

6th April 2006, 02:44 AM	#2
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi, In Sth America, smaller cuchillos and cuchillas, that is narrow and broad bladed knives are known as "verijeros", sometimes spelled as "verigeros". Now, "verije" in Spanish means the groin/genital area and why these knives are known as literally "groiners" is less than entirely clear, but conventional wisdom has it that they acquired the name from the manner in which they are carried; Verijeros are usually tucked into the belt on the LHS and in between the hip and the belly button, pointing towards the groin. The maxium size for a verijero is limited by the comfort that it can be carried in the above mentioned position. This consideration usually restricts them to a blade length of less than 6". Longer knives having to be carried across the small of the back. Verijeros are used for those tasks that require a small blade and are considered tools rather than weapons. Fernando's gaucho kife with the 18cm blade is a little too big for a verijero and too small to be carried in the small of the back, so it would be simply known as a cuchillo and by a few as an oversized verijero. Knives of this size were usually tucked into the belt near the hip, though at times also at the small of the back. The blade and cross guard, of the second is typical of facons, albeit in this instance very much undersized and probably made to serve as a souvenir. The dimensions of the third firmly makes it a verijero, although its handle is not that of typical South American knives. However we have to keep in mind that contrary to modern perceptions, apart from blade commonalities, there was no universal typology in handles until the 20th century because the Sth American nations lacked a manufacturing base up to that time, most tools, weapons and other implement having to be imported from Europe. As a result, all kinds of knives found their way into the hands of the Gauchos, which included knives fashioned from broken sheep shears. The general style that nowadays is associated with gaucho knives emerged from a desire to conform with a national cultural sereotype, that of a mythical gaucho, and is based on what a wealthy "campesino" (man of the land) would have owned in the second half of the 19th century and worn only on festive occasions. Cheers Chris

7th April 2006, 03:35 AM	#3
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi, A Correction: In my haste I forgot to mention that according to Argentinean authorities a "puñal" is a cuchillo with a substantial false edge, which in many cases is left blunt - As with the term "facon", this nomenclature is also used fairly loosely. Also, According to the Argentinean expert Abel Domenech, and confirmed by my own observations, is the disproportionate emphasis placed on the decoration of those very ornate criollo knives, whilst in too many cases the blade's finish and general quality is quite basic or even disappointing. Domenech concludes that for the owners of these knives appearance was considerably more important than function. As an aside, I made the same observation about a good many antique Spanish navajas found in collections. Cheers Chris

3rd September 2011, 10:32 AM	#6
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Brezolin, Muito obrigado for your post and that wonderful link to Brazilian knives. Cheers Chris